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ではないか / ため / 運動 / 来られない / うれしくてならなかったよ

Toritoribe

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too happy to be able to stand/bear.

It would be possible to interpret that this -te form explains the reason/cause why the subject can't stand/bear the state.
 

Mike Cash

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Your incredible literal-mindedness and over dependence on understanding (or verifying your understanding) through translations hold you back.

How any native speaker can say something like "I'm so happy I can't stand it" is contradictory and ambiguous is totally beyond me. What must run through your mind when you hear things like "Boy! It's colder than hell outside!" or "This tastes like sh*t!"?

Seriously, you need to loosen up and develop the ability to pick up on the "feel" of usage from context instead of tripping over every square Japanese peg that can't be pounded into a round English hole.

I suspect you have probably also developed a severe habit of and addiction for translating, which is fine up to a point but which very quickly turns into a crutch and can end up permanently hobbling your progress. Read Japanese in Japanese as Japanese. Understand it the same way.

You mentioned earlier that you have some reading material but don't feel ready for it yet. I am reminded of my dear 72 year old mother who to this day can't swim because she heeded the words of her own mother, who told her never to go in the water until she knew how to swim. You need to at least partially set aside this grammar-translation method (which is used to horrible effect in teaching English in Japan) and force yourself to pick up some of those short stories and force yourself to NOT TRANSLATE in your head and to look up NOTHING WHATSOEVER and develop the skill of figuring things out from context and repeated exposure in varying contexts, and how to be comfortable with getting the gist and general idea of 80% of something rather than wanting the detailed particulars of 100% of everything.

Those are skills entirely separate from the knowledge of kanji, vocabulary, and grammar. And they are ESSENTIAL skills if you ever plan to do anything with all this Japanese you're studying other than just treat it as an interesting academic exercise.

You've already given this なる thing about 10 times more thought than it deserves or is necessary. All that is required when you hit things like that is that you make a mental note of it and be on the lookout for future instances and use them to broaden the base of experience you use to develop a "feel" for the meaning and usage. You don't have to have a rational understanding of every little thing that passes before your eye. You only have to understand the "what" and the "how" of usage....not the "why". This is what they say. This is how they use it. Now I can use it too. THAT is how you effectively learn Japanese as a second language. I'm going to fixate on and get stopped by every little thing and insist on understanding it through rendering it into English is how you learn Japanese as a foreign language.

You've stared at the water and examined every grain of sand on the shore long enough....jump in the ****** water and swim already.
 

eeky

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Your incredible literal-mindedness and over dependence on understanding (or verifying your understanding) through translations hold you back.

... yadda yadda ...
I study Japanese for my own enjoyment, and I will continue to do this in exactly the way I please, which includes pursuing the questions that interest me. Your help in answering some of my questions in the past has been much appreciated, and any future help would also be appreciated. If you just want to carp on about these same old imagined issues then please don't bother replying. I'm really not interested.

too happy to be able to stand/bear.

Thanks, I am still not 100% sure if we are understanding "can't bear/stand" in quite the same way. Does the original うれしくてならなかったよ seem to you like a plain and straightforward expression of happiness, or is it tinged and nuanced with other emotions?
 

Mike Cash

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Understood.

It's just frustrating to see somebody who is standing with his nose right up against the door to the Next Big Thing not push the door open and step through. I've always admired your effort, dedication, and progress and in my own limited way have been rooting for you. That's something I seldom get to say or do, as to be perfectly frank I very seldom see anyone worth saying it about or worth rooting for.

I'm not suggesting you stop your current activities. I'm only suggesting you set aside a small part of your time to give what I suggested a try. You might just find yourself pleasantly surprised.
 

Toritoribe

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Thanks, I am still not 100% sure if we are understanding "can't bear/stand" in quite the same way. Does the original 窶堋、窶堙ェ窶堋オ窶堋ュ窶堙??堙遺?堙ァ窶堙遺?堋ゥ窶堙≫?堋ス窶堙ヲ seem to you like a plain and straightforward expression of happiness, or is it tinged and nuanced with other emotions?
The former. ~てならない can be used whether the emotion is positive or negative.
 

undrentide

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Maybe it is the English translation "cannot stand it" for ~てならない(たまらない、しかたがない) that bothers you.
ならない、たまらない、しかたがない describe the situation where one feels that one cannot stand still, cannot help doing something because of the strong emotion (either positive or negative, pleasant or unpleasant) one is feeling. Perhaps 'cannot stand' is not exact translation for ならない.
 

Mike Cash

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It's not at all the exact literal translation for it and trying think of it starting from those terms is not likely to yield satisfactory results. It also hurts that we learn verb+てはならない early on as a set phrase of prohibition.

The pertinent questions to approaching an understanding of なる are:

なにがなる?
何になる?

Understand what is naru-ing and/or what it is naru-ing into and you'll understand なる.

And you'll say なるほど!
 
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