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てもらう question

killerinsidee

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I've ran into some もらう/いただく sentences recently and I got a bit confused about some stuff. In the normal constructs I understand that もらう needs the receiver's point of view, (marked by は/が) and the person you get the "favor/thing" from is marked by に/から. If the first person if involved, then he can't be the "giver" and so on.

That's all great, but then I saw examples like this:

1. 「落語家は常に「どうしたらお客様に楽しんでもらえるか」を頭において話をしている。」. This one is especially confusing to me. Shouldn't there be a あげる instead of もらう there? If the meaning is something like "what should i do for the guests to enjoy themselves"? However, going by the "もらう" receiving rules, since the "first person" is involved wouldn't it be lit. "what should I do to receive the "favor" of guests enjoying themselves"? Sounds a bit odd to me. 「楽しんでもらう」was the part that caused the confusion for me in the first place.

2. 「全部の色について読み楽しんでもらえたら幸いです」 This seems to be a common phrase, but who does it refer to? Is it something along the lines of "if (someone) could get enjoyment from something, then I'm happy?" Similar phrase 「みんなに喜んでもらえるといい。」Why isn't が there instead of に?

3. 「私たちの映画を皆さんに楽しんでいただけてうれしいです。」"We are happy that everyone could get -the favor of- enjoyment from our movie". Is that もらう there possible simply because the giver is not actually "we", but the movie? Otherwise it would need to be あげる?
 
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nekojita

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If someone else is doing the verb, you can't "あげる" the action to them. For example, 教えてあげる can be used for teaching somebody, but 習ってあげる wouldn't fit if you "had" someone else learn. So 楽しんであげる can't be used to talk about helping/making someone else enjoy themselves in this context.

In all of these examples, に marks the person doing the favour (the audience or reader), and the performer/creator(s) are "receiving" (a literal translation does make it sound awkward in English) the favour of having someone else enjoy their work.
 

killerinsidee

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Thanks for the explanation. (I was away for a bit, couldn't reply sooner.)

I have a follow up question, which is related to this giving/receiving thing.

I encountered a few sentences with these kind of constructs and I was wondering if you could clarify who is giving and receiving in those cases.

1. 「(person)には (action)してもらおうかな?」- Also not sure what's the significance of もらおう (volitional) in here.

2. 「そんなのより、(person)が (something)なってくれないと、私はもっと嫌かな。」If i remember correctly, the sentence before this is describing "そんなの", a thing that would be "less bad" then this sentence. In this case, does this simply mean "if (person) doesn't get some favor, then..." and not strictly from the speaker?
Right after sentence was「(person)が良かったって思ってくれないと意味ない」- Same as the above, just the general "if the said person doesn't get the favor from someone, then..."?

3. 「これで奴が心を入れ替えてくれることをわりと真剣に願った。」- The speaker was trying to teach a classmate a lesson, similar as the above "Wish that he would get the 入れ替えてくれる from someone"?

4. Can't remember the full sentence, but it ended with 「てもらえよ!」- Is this simply a "receive (something)!" command (form)?

Small question about 2. and 3. - While くれる has the meaning of "someone gives you something" and もらう "you receive something", it seems to me like they could be interchangeable in those cases assuming that what I wrote above is not completely wrong.

Sorry for bothering you with this, this giving/receiving thing has been messing with me for a while. Really want to put it to rest. :)

(Hopefully I didn't forget anything.)
 

nekojita

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もらう is more like "I got some help from him" (my action) and くれる more like "He helped me out" (his action).

So while with てもらう the person doing the favour is marked with に, and most of the time the speaker is the one もらうing (unless it is a command/suggestion form, as in your 4.), with てくれる、the person doing the favour is generally marked with が, and they are the one who "くれる", the action being of benefit (directly or indirectly) to the speaker.

1. 「(person)には (action)してもらおうかな?」
Speaker is considering/intending to get (person) to do (action). "Hmm, should I get..." Volitional can be used here as もらう is the speaker's action.

2. (person)が (something)なってくれない
The (person) is the one who would be doing whatever "(something)なって" refers to. Them doing that thing would benefit the speaker (e.g. them thinking that something I did/made/prepared was good).

3. 心を入れ替える is a set phrase. Look that up and then have another go at this one.

4. Yes, "Go get (somebody) to do whatever for you". 医者に診てもらえよ
 

killerinsidee

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Thanks again, it really helps. About 3. I'm aware that it's a set phrase, but basically it's the same thing as in 2. then? " Them doing that thing would benefit the speaker "? Also, does the receiver or てくれる need to be the speaker in the 2. and 3. cases or can it be someone else (3rd person)?
 

Toritoribe

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Yes for the first question.
くれる can be used only when the recipient of the favor is the speaker or the speaker's in-group member(s).
 
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