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だって /  もう、ラーセンさんが ... / 何だかよくお ... / のせて

eeky

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Hiya

1. お父さんだって、たいてい十一時までには帰ってるんだ から、あなたもそれまでには帰ってきてね。

My translation: "Father usually gets home by 11 o'clock, so you need to get home by then too."

Is だって = だといって, literally "speaking of father"?


2. A student officer is talking to a foreign student about the concern of the mother of the Japanese family with whom the student is staying that she (the Japanese mother) has not received any letter from the student's mother in America.

留学生係: もう、ラーセンさんが来てから三ヶ月にもなるのに、アメリカのお 母さんから一度も手紙が来ないのは、どういうわけだろ う、「婦がお世話になっております」なんて言ってきて もよさそうなものだけど、なんておっしゃってましたよ 。

I get: "Miss Larsen, you've already been (in Japan) for three months, yet not one letter has arrived from (your) mother in America..."

Then I'm guesssing that the speaker is relating the Japanese mother's questions like "what could be the reason", and so forth, but beyond that I can't decipher who is saying what about whom. A translation, as literal as possible, of the remainder of the sentence would be very useful for me.


3. The same conversation continues:

ラーセンさん: どうして母が・・・。

留学生係: アメリカでは、大学生は独立した人間と考 えられているから、親がそんな手紙をわざわざ書くなん ていうことはないんですって説明したんですけど、何だ かよくお分かりにならないようでした。

My translation: "I explained that in America, university students are considered independent adults, so parents don't usually write such letters, but (the Japanese mother) didn't seem to understand very well."

Is this OK?

And have I parsed the last part correctly:

ようでした = (she) seemed
お分かりにならない = not to understand
何だかよく = very well

?


4. それに、晩ご飯のあとで、いすに足のせて新聞読んでた ら、「いすに足のせないでね」なんて言うの。

My translation: "Also, after dinner I put my feet up on a chair and was reading a newspaper, when she told me, like, "Don't put your feet on the chair".

In 足のせて and 足のせないで, is the verb のせる? I mean, it's not 足 + の + せる, is it? In full, would there be a particle after 足?
 

Toritoribe

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1. お父さんだって、たいてい十一時までには帰ってるんだから、あなたもそれまでには帰ってきてね。
My translation: "Father usually gets home by 11 o'clock, so you need to get home by then too."
Is だって = だといって, literally "speaking of father"?
No. It's the same to でも or "also". (The nuance is sometimes more close to "even".)
[係助]《断定の助動詞「だ」に係助詞「とて」の付いた「だとて」の音変化という》名詞・副詞、一部の助詞に付く。「でも」に似るが、語調がより強い。
1 ある事柄を例示し、それが他と同類、または、同様であるという意を表す。…もやはり。…でも。「鯨―人間の仲間だ」「ここから―見える」
だっての意味 - goo国語辞書

2. A student officer is talking to a foreign student about the concern of the mother of the Japanese family with whom the student is staying that she (the Japanese mother) has not received any letter from the student's mother in America.
留学生係: もう、ラーセンさんが来てから三ヶ月にもなるのに、アメリカのお母さんから一度も手紙が来ないのは、どういうわけだろう、「婦がお世話になっております」なんて言ってきてもよさそうなものだけど、なんておっしゃってましたよ。
I get: "Miss Larsen, you've already been (in Japan) for three months, yet not one letter has arrived from (your) mother in America..."
Then I'm guesssing that the speaker is relating the Japanese mother's questions like "what could be the reason", and so forth, but beyond that I can't decipher who is saying what about whom. A translation, as literal as possible, of the remainder of the sentence would be very useful for me.
もう、ラーセンさんが来てから三ヶ月にもなるのに、アメリカのお 母さんから一度も手紙が来ないのは、どういうわけだろ う、「がお世話になっております」なんて言ってきてもよさそうなものだけど

The whole sentence above is the Japanese mother's words to the student officer, and the words in quotation marks is her(=Japanese mother's) guess as to what the American mother is supposed to write to her(=Japanese mother).

3. The same conversation continues:
ラーセンさん: どうして母が・・・。
留学生係: アメリカでは、大学生は独立した人間と考えられているから、親がそんな手紙をわざわざ書くなんていうことはないんですって説明したんですけど、何だかよくお分かりにならないようでした。
My translation: "I explained that in America, university students are considered independent adults, so parents don't usually write such letters, but (the Japanese mother) didn't seem to understand very well."
Is this OK?
And have I parsed the last part correctly:
ようでした = (she) seemed
お分かりにならない = not to understand
何だかよく = very well
?
All correct!👍

4. それに、晩ご飯のあとで、いすに足のせて新聞読んでたら、「いすに足のせないでね」なんて言うの。
My translation: "Also, after dinner I put my feet up on a chair and was reading a newspaper, when she told me, like, "Don't put your feet on the chair".
In 足のせて and 足のせないで, is the verb のせる? I mean, it's not 足 + の + せる, is it? In full, would there be a particle after 足?
Yes, it's 足乗せる. The particle を is omitted.(This omission often occurs in conversation.)
 
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Glenn

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I'm glad you got that, Toritoribe, because I was logged out in the middle of typing up my response, and I lost all of it. Plus, I was wondering what on earth 婦 was doing in there. 娘 makes sooooooooo much more sense. haha
 

Toritoribe

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Yeah, I checked before I pushed "submit" button, because I saw you were on line, Glenn-san.🙂
 

eeky

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No. It's tha same to でさえ or "even".
Thanks Toritoribe. Is it ever possible, in a different context, that だって is だ + something to do with だ + という, or does it always have the meaning like "even" or similar?

The whole sentence above is the Japanese mother's words to the student officer, and the words in quotation marks is her(=Japanese mother's) guess as to what the American mother is supposed to write to her(=Japanese mother).
OK, let me try this again:

なんておっしゃってましたよ = (The Japanese mother) said things like:

もう、ラーセンさんが来てから三ヶ月にもなるのに、アメリカのお 母さんから一度も手紙が来ないのは = Miss Larsen has already been (in Japan) for three months, yet not one letter has arrived from (her) mother in America,

どういうわけだろ う = and what could be the reason,

よさそうなものだけど = and it would be a good thing

「娘がお世話になっております」なんて言ってきても = (if she wrote and) said something like "thanks for looking after my daughter"

Is this correct?

I'm a bit confused by 娘がお世話になっております. Why does 娘 appear to be the subject? Where is the expression of thanks? Is the whole thing a kind of set expression?
 

Glenn

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お世話になる is a set phrase meaning to be taken care of by someone, so the US mom's daughter is being taken care of by the Japanese host mother. It's a way of thanking someone without saying thanks. (そう)言ってきてもよさそうなものだけど is a whole phrase. 言う + くる = 言ってくる + てもいい = 言ってきてもいい + そうだ = 言ってきてもよさそうだ, and that whole thing modifies もの which is being used to make it sound emotional. I don't know how to better describe もの's use here right now. 言ってもいい would be "you could say" or "you may say" or "it's alright to say". The くる seems to be saying that the US mother would be bringing the talk to the Japanese host mother. いい when connected with そうだ of conjecture becomes よさ (as ない becomes なさ, i.e., なさそうだ). Other than that part you have it right.

だって I was thinking was like も here. I'm not sure where it comes from, but that shouldn't really hurt your understanding of it (it hasn't hurt mine that I'm aware of). Just know that's it's a more colloquial and emotive way of saying も・でさえ and you should be OK (although でさえ seems pretty emotionally charged...).
 

Toritoribe

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Is it ever possible, in a different context, that だって is だ + something to do with だ + という, or does it always have the meaning like "even" or similar?

Oh, Sorry. I revised my initial post.:p

だって can mean hearsay.

誰が窓ガラスを壊したの?
お父さんだって。

Who did break the window?
I heard dad did it.

so 言って is not directly referring to the mother saying those words of thanks?
No. It refers to 娘がお世話になっております. Although it's not the American mother's actual words but the one in the Japanese mother's guess, as I wrote in my previous post.(言う is used as 書く or "to write" here.)

~てもよさそうなものだけど is more likely an expression for "complaint"; "She(=American mother) is supposed to (write~)".
 

eeky

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だって can mean hearsay.
誰が窓ガラスを壊したの?
お父さんだって。
Who did break the window?
I heard dad did it
In your mind, do you associate this って with the って that means という? Or should I think of だって as a completely separate word that has nothing to do with だ + って in that sense?


No. It refers to 娘がお世話になっております. Although it's not the American mother's actual words but the one in the Japanese mother's guess, as I wrote in my previous post.(言う is used as 書く or "to write" here.)".
Sorry, I didn't explain myself well. I used "say" to mean "write", and I also understand that these are the words that the Japanese lady wants/expects the American mother to communicate to her. My question was really whether 言う referred to the American mother (potentially) saying/writing those things, or whether it meant, as Glenn suggested, something more general like "you [i.e. one] could say". The reason I wanted to pin this down is that I often have difficulty telling when 言う/いう really denotes a quote, and when it's just a grammatical device meaning something like "the thing that I've just mentioned".

If this question has become too complicated to answer then please ignore it!
 

Toritoribe

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In your mind, do you associate this って with the って that means という? Or should I think of だって as a completely separate word that has nothing to do with だ + って in that sense?
You can think だって is a single word. Plus, って is not always replaced to という. It could be simply と.

Sorry, I didn't explain myself well. I used "say" to mean "write", and I also understand that these are the words that the Japanese lady wants/expects the American mother to communicate to her. My question was really whether 言う referred to the American mother (potentially) saying/writing those things, or whether it meant, as Glenn suggested, something more general like "you [i.e. one] could say". The reason I wanted to pin this down is that I often have difficulty telling when 言う/いう really denotes a quote, and when it's just a grammatical device meaning something like "the thing that I've just mentioned".
Ah, I see.:) Indeed, 言ってもいい often means "We/You can say~". However, in this particular case, 言う means literally "to say/write". One of the reasons is 言ってきても, but, at the first place, "It can be said "Thank you for taking care of my daughter"" doesn't make much sense in this context, do it?;-)
 

Glenn

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Ha, I actually meant it could be used generally, but didn't mean to exclude its use specifically as it is used here. I was just assuming that would be understood. Sorry. 🙂
 
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