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「とする」と「~てみる」

J44xm

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I've recently discovered the grammar "(食べよう)とする" but I'm not too certain how it differs from "(食べて)みる."

例文:
① 雪子さんは毎日体にいい食べ物を食べようとします 。
② 雪子さんは毎日体にいい食べ物を食べてみます。

何か説明してもらえませんか。どうぞよろしくお願いし ます。

窶ーツス窶堋ゥツ静?窶督セ窶堋オ窶堙??堙?窶堙ァ窶堋ヲ窶堙懌?堋ケ窶堙ア窶堋ゥツ。窶堙??堋、窶堋シ窶堙ヲ窶堙ォ窶堋オ窶堋ュ窶堋ィナ?ティ窶堋「窶堋オ窶堙懌?堋キツ。
 

nice gaijin

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~ようとする is a decision with some conviction, whereas ~てみる is to more tentatively, "try and see" how things turn out type of decision.
 

nhk9

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the first one can be translated as just "try", the second one you can think of it as "eat and see how it goes"
 

J44xm

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I see, I see. Well, thank you very much.
この文法を使ってみようと決めました。
 

nhk9

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J44xm said:
I see, I see. Well, thank you very much.
この文法を使ってみようと決めました。

Sure, no problem

Just one thing, when you use volitional form, it's often followed by something to do with "will", such as "決心した”. for kimemashita, you would use "koto ni", or just "ni" in some cases

使おうと決心した more like "I have made up my mind to use it"
使うことに決めた "I have decided to use it"
 

J44xm

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I see. I'd have thought that 「決める」 was a will-based verb, which shows what I know. Thanks for the clarification.
 

yamada

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I've recently discovered the grammar "(食べよう)とする" but I'm not too certain how it differs from "(食べて)みる."
例文:
① 雪子さんは毎日体にいい食べ物を食べようとします。
② 雪子さんは毎日体にいい食べ物を食べてみます。
何か説明してもらえませんか。どうぞよろしくお願いします。

② sounds unnatural. No 毎日 is needed, because ② is more tentative.
But, 雪子さんは体にいい食べ物を食べてみます is strange.

The past sense of ① would be natural.
(After coming back from a hospital), 雪子さんは毎日体にいい食べ物を食べようとしていました。
 

yamada

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①雪子さんは毎日、このフォーラムに(で、へ)、投稿しようとします 。
②雪子さんは毎日、このフォーラムに(で、へ)、投稿してみます 。

① is OK. ② is no.
 

yamada

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①雪子さんは、その大学に受験しようとします 。
②雪子さんは、その大学に受験してみます 。

Both are OK.
 

J44xm

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Ah, I think I understand why my ② is unnatural. Why is my ① unnatural, though?

Regarding your examples, would ① also be okay with 「~としています」? If so, what is the difference in meaning? And ②, I understand.

Thank you very much!
 

undrentide

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I've recently discovered the grammar "(食べよう)とする" but I'm not too certain how it differs from "(食べて)みる."
例文:
① 雪子さんは毎日体にいい食べ物を食べようとします。
② 雪子さんは毎日体にいい食べ物を食べてみます。
何か説明してもらえませんか。どうぞよろしくお願いします。

Hi J44xm san,

Nice Gaijin san and nhk9 san gave clear explanation about the difference between the two.
~ようとする just try out something
~てみる is try something and see how it goes/how it is like

What I might add as my two cents, ~ようとする does not necessarily mean one actually does it - it could ends up in just trying but without doing it.

Grammatically both ① and ② are OK, though because of the word 毎日 (which means 雪子さん tries to do so repeatedly), I feel like to add ~ている i.e. 食べようとしています.

Here are sentences that look similar to see the differences, I added ~ことにしています which means make it a rule to do___.

①雪子さんは毎日からだにいいものを食べようとします。
She tries to do so everyday. (general statement)
She tries to do so everyday (but fails to do so, sometimes or always)
*~ようとする also means "about to do___" so it can imply that the action is not

②雪子さんは毎日からだにいいものを食べようとしています。
Almost the same as ①. The difference is ています which means it is repeated, on going thing more clearly.

③雪子さんは毎日からだにいいものを食べることにしています。
She made it a rule to do so everyday, she decided to do so everyday and actually is doing so.

④雪子さんは毎日からだにいいものを食べてみます。
She tires to do so and see what is going to happen, she does it tentatively.
Difference from ① is that she actually tries it.

⑤雪子さんは毎日からだにいいものを食べてみています。
Almost the same as ④.
Somehow ④ sounds more natural to me.

⑥雪子さんは毎日からだにいいものを食べてみることにしています。
Same as ③, only the difference is this implies "tentativeness".

Hope the above would not make things too complicated... 😅
 

J44xm

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Not too complicated at all. A great many thanks for a fantastic explanation. Just my style of explanation too--contrast and compare. I think I understand pretty well. Let's try a quick test ...

① 僕は毎日うちで勉強をすることにしています。 (I make it a rule to ...)
② 僕は毎日うちで勉強のことにしています。 (Rewording attempt. Okay?)
③ 時々マリオさんに会いに行こうとします。
  (Sometimes I try to go but it doesn't happen for whatever reason.)
④ 雨でも行って見るよ! (Even if it rains, I'll go (and see what happens).)
⑤ テストに合格してみるつもりです。
⑥ とても暑い時、銀行へ歩いて行かないことにしています。
⑦ とても暑い時、銀行へ歩いて行こうとしていません。
  (Hmmm. To pull this off, I'd need the troublesome negative 「~よう」 verb, huh?)

Are these correct and natural? Many, many thanks.
 

yamada

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Not too complicated at all. A great many thanks for a fantastic explanation. Just my style of explanation too--contrast and compare. I think I understand pretty well. Let's try a quick test ...

① 僕は毎日うちで勉強をすることにしています。 (I make it a rule to ...)
② 僕は毎日うちで勉強のことにしています。 (Rewording attempt. Okay?)
③ 時々マリオさんに会いに行こうとします。
(Sometimes I try to go but it doesn't happen for whatever reason.)
④ 雨でも行って見るよ! (Even if it rains, I'll go (and see what happens).)
⑤ テストに合格してみるつもりです。
⑥ とても暑い時、銀行へ歩いて行かないことにしています。
⑦ とても暑い時、銀行へ歩いて行こうとしていません。
(Hmmm. To pull this off, I'd need the troublesome negative 「~よう」 verb, huh?)

Are these correct and natural? Many, many thanks.

② must be 僕は毎日うちで勉強をすることにしています。
⑤ is unnatural. It should be テストに合格するつもりです。
⑥,⑦ とても暑い時は is much better.
If the nominative of ⑦ is 私, ⑦ is unnatural. it should be とても暑い時は、銀行へ歩いて(は)行きません。
When they/she/he is the nominative of ⑦, it is彼らは銀行へ歩いて行こうとしていません .
 

yamada

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Regarding your examples, would ① also be okay with 「~としています」? If so, what is the difference in meaning? And ②, I understand.

Yes.

①雪子さんは毎日髪型を変えようとします 。
②雪子さんは毎日髪型を変えようとしています。

Either is ok.
What about mine?
 

undrentide

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① 僕は毎日うちで勉強をすることにしています。 (I make it a rule to ...)
③ 時々マリオさんに会いに行こうとします。
(Sometimes I try to go but it doesn't happen for whatever reason.)
④ 雨でも行って見るよ! (Even if it rains, I'll go (and see what happens).)


These are OK. You got it right! 👍

② 僕は毎日うちで勉強のことにしています。 (Rewording attempt. Okay?)
I'm afraid that this does not make sense.
勉強のことにする??
Do you mean
僕は毎日うちで勉強するようにしている
(I try to study at home everyday)?
~ようにする is to try to do so as far as possible.
Possibility of actually doing so is much higher than ~しようとする.

⑤ テストに合格してみるつもりです。
Grammatically OK, but sounds awkward.
To pass the exam and see what happens...?
To pass an exam you need efforts, so it does not match "do and see", somehow.
If it is
テストを受けてみるつもりです。
then it is OK. You take the test and see how it goes.

If you want to prove yourself by passing the exam, you can use ~てみせる.
テストに合格してみせるつもりです。

⑥ とても暑い時、銀行へ歩いて行かないことにしています。
It is "to make it a rule" sentence, basically it's OK, though I feel like to add は either

1.とても暑いときには、銀行へ歩いて行かないことにしています。
or
2.とても暑いとき、銀行へ歩いて行かないことにしています。
or
3.とても暑いとき、銀行へ歩いて行かないことにしています。

は suggests there's alternative.
1. Normally I walk to the bank, except when it's very hot.
2. When it's very hot, I might walk to elsewhere, but not to the bank (because it's rather far, etc.)
3. I go to the bank anyway, but not on foot when it's very hot.

⑦ とても暑い時、銀行へ歩いて行こうとしていません。
~ている means the action is on going, while ~とき is conditional (sort of. Well, you are not talking about what is actually ongoing now), so the first part and the latter part do not really match, I'm afraid.

とても暑いとき、銀行へ歩いて行こうとはしません。
When it's very hot, I would not/dare not walk to the bank.
(Again, I feel like to add は somewhere...)
 

J44xm

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② 僕は毎日うちで勉強のことにしています。 (Rewording attempt. Okay?)
I'm afraid that this does not make sense.
I see, I see. Well, I was just wondering if the grammar would work. Indeed not, it seems. Thanks.
~ようにする is to try to do so as far as possible.
Possibility of actually doing so is much higher than ~しようとする.
Interesting. So that one particle makes all the difference, does it?
If you want to prove yourself by passing the exam, you can use ~てみせる.
テストに合格してみせるつもりです。
Interesting usage of "miseru." I assume that it's used in basically the same way as "miru," except with the meaning of "showing" rather than "seeing"?
1.とても暑いときには、銀行へ歩いて行かないことにしています。
or
2.とても暑いとき、銀行へ歩いて行かないことにしています。
or
3.とても暑いとき、銀行へ歩いて行かないことにしています。
は suggests there's alternative.
Ahh, I see. Thanks for the great examples.
~ている means the action is on going, while ~とき is conditional (sort of. Well, you are not talking about what is actually ongoing now), so the first part and the latter part do not really match, I'm afraid.
とても暑いとき、銀行へ歩いて行こうとはしません。
「とは」? Interesting, interesting, this is! So much to learn. Many thanks! I'll be using this thread as a reference for a while, I think.

Uh, sorry for the increasingly indented formatting. Some sort of bug in the system, I suppose.
 

Damicci

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Can には Always be omitted. I have read in some books には is to follow ~とき

Also I believe you don't need to use the kanji for みる when stating your trying something out.
 
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