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”とでは”?

UsoToChinmoku

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So, I've been doing my Anki vocabulary drill and ところが popped-up and the example used in the entry is: "「評判はあまりよくなかったんだ。―見ると聞くとでは大違いだったよ」"

From the context and the usage of ところが it looks like ”(と)では” shows contrast, but how exactly does では connect with と here? Can someone point me to a dictionary entry describing this usage?
Is this some idiomatic construction? Since, if i google ”聞くとでは” all I get is ”見ると聞くとでは”.
Is this an abbreviation of something like ”聞くことと見ることを比べると大違い” If it's not an abbreviation, how the hell do these parts of speech connect? If the first ”と” is used as a listing particle, it can only connect to nouns.
Could it possibly be this usage?

次の発言の前置きを表す。 「はっきり言う-,それは不可能だ」 「この場合です-,お値段が高くなります」

What about the other ”と(では)” then? How does ”では” fit into this abomination? :(
 
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Toritoribe

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見るのと聞くのとでは大違いだ doesn't sound strange, right? と is actually a listing particle and that's idiomatic structure originally from classical Japanese. (Any nominalizer is not needed to make a noun phrase/clause.)
 

UsoToChinmoku

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Well, when you put it that way, it definitely sounds quite natural if I read it out loud. Unfortunately when I start thinking about the ”とでは” part in grammatical terms it still rubs me the wrong way.
So the first と lists and connects 見ること and 聞くこと , what exactly is the function of the second one? What if we removed the second と? 「見るのと聞くのでは大違いだ」 The sentence is still grammatically correct. The meaning is, as far as I can tell, intact as well. What's the difference?
 
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Toritoribe

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The same.


[並助]いくつかの事柄を列挙する意を表す。「君―ぼく―の仲」
「幸ひの、なき―ある―は」〈源・玉鬘〉
[補説]並立する語ごとに「と」を用いるのが本来の用法であるが、現代語ではいちばんあとにくる「と」を省略するのが普通となっている
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2/154670/m0u/と/

Furthermore, 見るのと聞くのは大違いだ is also valid. で is considered to be behind the topic marker here.

見るのと聞くので大違いだ/違う/違いがある --> 見るのと聞くのでは大違いだ/違う/違いがある --> 見るのと聞くのは大違いだ/違う/違いがある
 
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UsoToChinmoku

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Damn, my bad. I should read dictionary entries properly :( Even the example sentences make it quite evident. Never knew the usage changed in modern Japanese. Anyway, now that the second と fits in everything makes sense. Thank you as usual.
 
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