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Use of 時 after verb

thesuker

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So, I've just started with 時 after verbs, with two clauses such as A+時, B. I more or less understand its use. I know that the tense of the first clause indicates the temporal relation it has with the second one, and that the verb tense in the second clause indicates the overall

In the case of 昼ご飯を食べた時、散歩する I understand the action in the first clause is finished and that the second one happened after. So past tense before 時 I get.

The problem comes with the present tense before 時. My textbook explains that when used, it indicates that clause A happened at the time or after (the future) of clause B. This is a bit confusing. When I say 昼ご飯を食べる時、お酒を飲む, am I saying that I drink alcohol at the time I have lunch, or that I will (in the future) drink sake when I have lunch? How can I tell the difference?

These doubts came to me when doing an exercise in which I had to choose the correct alternative. And in one of the phrases, 風を(引く/引いた)時、お薬を飲む。 the correct answer is 引いた (according to the book), but I thought that maybe 引く could be possible when referring to the moment I'm starting to catch the cold.
 
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Kraise

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You should take some medicine after getting sick right? its a matter of organizing the order things happen
here: とき【時】の意味 - 国語辞書 - goo辞書

Here :

  1. 10 (行為や状態を表す連体修飾を受けて)
  1. ㋐ある状態になっている時点や時期。「家に着いた―、母はいなかった」「幼稚園の―は、やんちゃ坊主だった」
You said something about speaking spanish in a certain thread before, ( I'm sure we should focus on english here, as a matter of making the information as broad as possible) but I'll risk it anyway.

時 is the same as "cuando"(not cuándo), really close to it, seriously. Im talking out of personal experience, since your "cuando"(spanish) and my "quando"(portuguese) are grammatically the same.
 
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Toritoribe

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In the case of 昼ご飯を食べた時、散歩する I understand the action in the first clause is finished and that the second one happened after. So past tense before 時 I get.
時 doesn't work in the that example. It's the same as "when I have lunch, I take a walk" sounds odd. Instead, あと "after" should be used to clarify the relation between the two clauses. (Incidentally, 散歩しているとき昼ご飯を食べた is no problem, since this means "while I was taking a walk.")

The problem comes with the present tense before 時. My textbook explains that when used, it indicates that clause A happened at the time or after (the future) of clause B. This is a bit confusing. When I say 昼ご飯を食べる時、お酒を飲む, am I saying that I drink alcohol at the time I have lunch, or that I will (in the future) drink sake when I have lunch? How can I tell the difference?
The meaning is determined by the context, including temporal adverbs. It's the same as the usual present tense of verbs.
e.g.
昼ご飯を食べる時、いつもお酒を飲む (habit)
明日昼ご飯を食べる時、お酒を飲む (future)

These doubts came to me when doing an exercise in which I had to choose the correct alternative. And in one of the phrases, 風を(引く/引いた)時、お薬を飲む。 the correct answer is 引いた (according to the book), but I thought that maybe 引く could be possible when referring to the moment I'm starting to catch the cold.
風 only means "wind". 風 must be used for "cold".
(風邪を)引く is a punctual verb. 引いた refers to the moment to catch a cold.
 

thesuker

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時 doesn't work in the that example. It's the same as "when I have lunch, I take a walk" sounds odd. Instead, あと "after" should be used to clarify the relation between the two clauses. (Incidentally, 散歩しているとき昼ご飯を食べた is no problem, since this means "while I was taking a walk.")
Wouldn't 昼ご飯を食べた時、散歩する be more like 'when I finish eating lunch, I take a walk'? My book gives the example of うちを出た時、電話がなった, as 'after I left the house, the phone rang'., and explains that when the first clause + 時 is in past, it indicates that the action is completed (the phone rang when you had already exited the house)
 
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Toritoribe

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昼ご飯を食べ終えた時、電話が鳴った or 昼ご飯を食べ終えた時、散歩がしたくなった is no problem since, unlike 昼ご飯を食べた時, うちを出た時 and 昼ご飯を食べ終えた時 refer to the moment the action is completed, as in your textbook. For instance, 日本にいた時 doesn't mean "being in Japan is completed". It refers to "through the period of time being in Japan" in 日本にいた時、日本語を話していた, "a short period of time" in 日本にいた時、温泉に行った or "a moment" in 日本にいた時、彼を見かけた, as same as "when I was in Japan" in English. Thus, the meaning differs depending on the types of the verb. The relation between ご飯を食べ(終え)る and 散歩する is also another problem in your example.
 

thesuker

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Thanks for the reply and for taking the time to help me with this, but I'm afraid I still don't get it.
  • 昼ご飯を食べた時、散歩する
  • 中国に行った時、ウーロン茶を買います
The two sentences both follow the same pattern, and I know for a fact the second one is correct, because it's from the textbook. As it explains in the textbook, the second sentences talks about what you'll do in the future, and the past tense of 行った indicates that it happens before buying the tea. Or, in other words, you will buy the tea after going to China. So, following that logic, in the first sentence, going for a walk happens after having lunch. But as you've kindly told me, that isn't the case because of the relation between having lunch and going for a walk, as you can't have lunch while going for a walk. But you also don't buy tea while going to China, you buy it when you've finished going, when you're already there. So the way I see it, in the same way, you go for a walk when you've finished eating.

I hope I'm not being too tiring with this topic, but I would really like to understand what the difference is and why the first one isn't correct. I hope you can clarify it a bit more. Thanks :)
 

Toritoribe

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The structures are not the same.
中国に行った時 doesn't just mean "to go to China" but "went to Chine and is in China". It's reasonable to buy tea when being in China.
As for the first example, think about a case that you are on a diet and usually don't have lunch, but when you have lunch, you take a walk to spend calorie. In this case, 昼ご飯を食べた時(は)、散歩します is valid. As you can see, 時 is closer to "in the case that~" or "if~" here, not just a future action 昼ご飯を食べたあと、散歩します or 昼ご飯を食べてから、散歩します.

The problem comes with the present tense before 時. My textbook explains that when used, it indicates that clause A happened at the time or after (the future) of clause B. This is a bit confusing. When I say 昼ご飯を食べる時、お酒を飲む, am I saying that I drink alcohol at the time I have lunch, or that I will (in the future) drink sake when I have lunch? How can I tell the difference?
I misunderstood your question. Sorry. The order of the actions in "A とき B" is determined by the relation between them. For instance, 家に入るとき、靴を脱ぐ is B --> A, テレビを見る時、眼鏡をかけている is "A = B". In your example 昼ご飯を食べる時、お酒を飲む, indeed the two interpretations "drink then eat" and "eat with drinking" are both possible, but the latter "the same time" is more common.
 
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