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US-Iran relations

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Like many Americans, I first became acutely aware of Iran in 1979, when that country breached a recognized embassy and held sixty diplomats and American citizens hostage for 444 days. During that period, most Americans wanted to attack Iran; and the only reason little was done to forcibly secure the hostages' release is that we had a very weak president (Carter) at the time. Hard feelings from that incident still linger in many Americans' minds, especially in those of us old enough to remember.

Now, I understand that Iran has its own grudge against the US for supporting the Shah; but I'll allow others more familiar with the Iranian perspective make that case. I'm only setting out the reasons America has hard feelings against Iran.

The other big reason of course is Israel, our oldest and staunchest ally in the region. Iran openly advocates the destruction of Israel. Personally, I don't agree with many things that Israel does; but I don't believe in abandoning friends. Israel has a right to exist. So does a Palestinian state (although I can't help but wonder why the Palestinians' fellow Arabs don't help them more).

Finally, when a story about Iran appears in our media, odds are good that it involves crowds chanting, "Death to America." Americans don't hold death-to-Iran rallies. But we do take such threats seriously when they're made against us.

All of which brings us to more current events involving the agreement between Iran and the US regarding nuclear weapons. I'm glad to see that Iran has agreed not to pursue them, and hope Iran keeps its word. Personally, I have no hard feelings against Iranians, whom I understand are some of the warmest and friendliest people in the world. It's Iran's current theocracy that worries me.
 
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Ronald, I noticed your post today, but as you made me promise that I don't participate in political discussion much, I ignore replying the thread.
 
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Your choice. But I didn't make you promise not to participate in political discussions. I have no authority to make you promise anything.

I think political discussions belong on this forum, unless they're about Japan.
 

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I see Mansoor is qualified to be a diplomat with that answer. Some topics can get too heated.
 
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No. I exactly don't like to be a diplomat. I mostly am interested in sciences, technology, nature, philosophy, traveling (tourism), driving, riding , fishing, study, praying, supernatural and paranormal matters and eating tasty foods and fruits.
The things that I don't like are policy, social issues, economy, medicine, law and judge.
 
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Fishing! Now we have something in common. You see? People really aren't so different after all. lol

But I don't go for supernatural/paranormal phenomena, which I don't believe exist. And religion plays no role in my life.

But law? I was a lawyer for 34 years before retiring a few years back, so sometimes I can't help myself. :)
 
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Excuse me I didn't know that you were a lawyer and I just expressed my feeling. Of course law is a good field and it helps people and protects society but I personally don't like serious and hard things and only love to deal with art, science, nature and things that offer me joy and happiness. So I don't like to meet police, guilty persons, court environment , judges, prison, prisoners and such as characters and places.
Of course I appreciate law and judges that secure society for people.

I am not an skillful fisher. I did do that just a few times and It was nice. I hadn't a fishing rod and every time I just used a piece of fishing line and a hook. Sadly in all my attempts I couldn't caught a big and eatable fish. All the fishes were very small and scant, but I realized, fishing could be how much interesting and fun!

But I don't go for supernatural/paranormal phenomena, which I don't believe exist. And religion plays no role in my life.
:)
Well, this is not something that I can prove to you visibly or by expression of feeling.
There had been numerous discussions between atheists and theists from beginning of history up to now and I don't think they were always fruitful.

Nonetheless, it sounds unfairly that we believe Space Shuttle has a designer and manufacturer but solar system and sun haven't!

And I wonder why recently, the numbers of Christians in the west claim they are atheist!
 
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No worries; I didn't take offense at your remark. I dealt with none of the things you listed, except courtrooms and judges. I didn't practice criminal law. My practice was limited to civil law, mainly involving contract and tort disputes. Anyway, I have a book of lawyer jokes, which I tried to read if I ever felt I was taking myself too seriously.

And now I'm more interested in the arts and sciences, anyway. Religion can be as volatile as politics, so if you want to pass on talking about that one, I have no objection.

Sorry if my opening post here offended you in any way. If it were feasible, I'd send you one of my fishing rods as a peace offering. My wife says I have too many, as I have too many guns. I have a modest collection of sporting rifles. I love pretty wood, and particularly like to collect modern single-shot rifles like this one: Dakota Arms | Model 10

Now it is time for fish stories. Alaska is a pretty good place to fish. I've caught fish more than a meter long. My wife once caught a halibut that weighed more than she did. I had to help her bring it in.
 
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And I wonder why recently, the numbers of Christians in the west claim they are atheist!
Simple. A person usually gets baptized early in the childhood, in disregard of own consent. Then later in life the person realizes he/she doesn't feel being religious at all. Takes the crucifix of their neck, put it in a jewelry-case and lives on as before only without external evidence of following a confession/religion. Internally that person might have been defying religion long before removing an external religious symbol.

Although i feel somewhat grateful towards Orthodox Christianity for not involving any maiming as procedure of adopting it. The idea of my anatomy being modified without my own consent puts me off.
Also Orthodox Easter involves traditions still enjoyed by me (and delicious cuisine of course). And churches are aesthetically pleasant.
 
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Mansoor - are there any Iranian poets (from the last century, or earlier) that you would recommend (and that hopefully have some English translators?)
 
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Mansoor - are there any Iranian poets (from the last century, or earlier) that you would recommend (and that hopefully have some English translators?)
yes, this is some poems of an able Iranian poet that is called Sa'eb Tabrizy that lived about 300 years ago. He is a famous poet but is not a star in compare with. Sa'ddi, Hafiz, Molavy and Ferdosi that are the most famous poets of Iran. These old poets are unparalleled in the world history. ( let me I explain about them separately in another post)
However, I translated some poems of Sa'eb Tabrizy to English and sent them to an English writing forum. these are some of Sa'eb's short ( couplet) )poems :

Love first takes unable men to their destination!
Waves of the sea carry the small sticks sooner to the beach.


********************
The buddies went
but their burning sorrow
didn’t go from my heart
When a convey move from a place
just a fire remains in the place!

*******************

Hey love!
Don’t leave me alone with myself more
Because lack of sadness makes me like common people


********************

The sensational love was created before heaven!
The host first brings saltshaker on the table!

************************

The name of songbird is famous
because of its love to flower
And if not; what came up from a mass of feathers?!

***********************

You can vacate your heart from issues, just with a sigh!
A courier is enough for hundred letters!


**************************


Wishing in an old dude is more than a youth
At autumn, every leaf gets several colors!

**********************

His love took me out from religion!
When the sun becomes evident, stars will become hidden!

**************************

Talking is a chance,
when we meet each other.
Because it is not clear,
when we will meet each other again,
like the the pieces of the wood on the sea?!

**********************

Although the sweet sleep (at bedtime)
is because of listening a story
But our sleep lost because of the sweetness of love story!


***************************


The light of the moon, stars and sun are the same to me.
The one who illuminates these mirrors is one!
 
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May I ask, without trying to tell anyone what to do, why there are topics like these on a site like this?
 
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May I ask, without trying to tell anyone what to do, why there are topics like these on a site like this?
Why not? It is in the Serious Discussions forum, which says its for all serious discussions - which seems to be appropriate. And, its much better to have one lightning rod than to have a bunch of thunderbolts falling all over the place.
 
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cocoichi
Interesting poetry, Mansoor. Are all your great writers poets, or do you also have novelists, play-wrights, and story-tellers?
Without any nationalism sense I have to say, despite the great art of writing and poetry in Iran this mainland of amazing poems and story writing is unknown in the west and east yet. Except a group of western and eastern researchers, writers and lovers to poem and poetry, other people don't know what amazing, dreamy and meaningful poems and most expert poets had been in Iran.
If I want to explain about poem and poetry in Iran, I will have to write a book and I think my knowledge and information will not be enough for this task. Such as descriptive books must be written by an (Iranian) expert in literature that I think they have been written but just in Farsi.
Ronald, if you become familiar with Iranian poems, know the art of old Iranian poets and writers, you will not be able to give up them forever, especially if you learn Farsi language and read the poems in its original language, because the poems in Farsi have the regular wonderful rhythms and metaphors that they will lose after translation. For example, please notice this poem in Farsi and see how much it is rhythmic, despite all its amazing meaning that need to literary interpretations.

من مست و تو ديوانه ما را که برد خانه
صد بار تو را گفتم کم خور دو سه پيمانه
در شهر يکي کس را هشيار نمي بينم
هر يک بتر از ديگر شوريده و ديوانه
هر گوشه يکي مستي دستي زده بر دستي
وان ساقي سرمستي با ساغر شاهانه
اي لولي بربط زن تو مست تري يا من
اي پيش تو چو مستي افسون من افسانه
از خانه برون رفتم مستيم به پيش آمد
در هر نظرش مضمر صد گلشن و کاشانه
چون کشتي بي لنگر کژ ميشد و مژ ميشد
وز حسرت او مرده صد عاقل و فرزانه
گفتم که رفيقي کن با من که منت خويشت
گفتا که بنشناسم من خويش ز بيگانه
ز کجايي تو؟ تسخر زد و گفت اي جان
نيميم ز ترکستان نيميم ز فرغانه
نيميم ز آب و گل نيميم ز جان و دل
نيميم لب دريا نيمي همه دردانه
من بي دل و دستارم در خانه خمارم
يک سينه سخن دارم هين شرح دهم يا نه
تو وقف خراباتي دخلت مي و خرجت مي
زين وقف به هوشياران مسپار يکي دانه


I am drunk and you are unconscious (because of drinking)

Who will take us to our home?

How many time I told you,

quaff goblet of wine less?!



I don’t see anyone conscious in the city!

Each one is absentminded and subconscious

worse than other


My soul! Come to the tavern

To realize the joy of spirit

What joy is in the world

without word of beloved?


Everywhere is a drunk that is calling,

the drunk cup-bearer with the imperial goblets


Hey, drunk lyre player!

Whether you are drunker or me?

My drunkenness is like a tale

against the drunk like you



I went out of the house

I met a plastered that was Inattention

to every garden and flower farm

He was careening to the left and right

like a ship without anchor

and a mass of sages,

seemed to be lifeless, because of feeling his state!


I said to him, "be my friend!"

Because I am familiar with you

He said, I can’t recognize the strangers from acquaintances


I said, where are you from?

He replied, half of me is from...
(somewhere)

and the half from...
(somewhere else)

The half of me is from water and soil

and the half from heart and soul

The half of me is in the beach

The half of me from pearl, quite


I am unconscious in the wine house

without hat and without sense

I have a lot of words

Whether I explain or not?


You have been devoted for tavern

Your income is wine and your expense is wine

Be warned; don’t give wises even a goblet!


There are tens famous old Iranian poets in the history and also tens contemporary poets that their poems are interesting, although they don't reach the old poets' art.



 
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Why not? It is in the Serious Discussions forum, which says its for all serious discussions - which seems to be appropriate. And, its much better to have one lightning rod than to have a bunch of thunderbolts falling all over the place.
Pretty much all forum sites have a section for chit/chat "off topic" discussions.
Sorry, I didn't read and know that. Always figured this was for serious Japan-related discussions. Carry on friends:thumbsup:
 
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RolandtheHeadless, the last poem that I sent was belong poet, Molavy. he lived hundreds years ago and is considered one of the greatest Iranian poets. His poems have a theosophy theme and he have used a lot of amazing metaphors in his poems.

For example, in the above poem the words :
Win - drunk - goblet- wine house- tavern - lyre player
are metaphors and their real meaning are somethings else.

For instance, in such theosophy poems " drunk" doesn't mean a person who has drunk liqueur, but it does mean a theist who has achieved some heavenly mysteries due to the intense worshiping and also obeying God.
Such person just attend to God and pay not attention to people much, and it is like he is absentminded, unconscious or drunk, while he isn't.
 
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A very interesting poem, Mansoor, and probably beautiful in the original Farsi. I've met people I thought were drunk on God, so I see the metaphor.

But I think you misunderstood my question. I was asking whether any of your great writers were novelists, playwrights, or story-tellers. In the West story-telling is at least as old as the Iliad, and the greatest writer in English, Shakespeare, was both a playwright and a poet.
 
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Here's one of Shakespeare's famous sonnets, Sonnet 18, one of my favorites.

Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate:
Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May,
And summer's lease hath all too short a date:
Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines,
And often is his gold complexion dimm'd;
And every fair from fair sometime declines,
By chance, or nature's changing course, untrimm'd;
But thy eternal summer shall not fade
Nor lose possession of that fair thou ow'st;
Nor shall Death brag thou wander'st in his shade,
When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st;
So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.
 
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A very interesting poem, Mansoor, and probably beautiful in the original Farsi. I've met people I thought were drunk on God, so I see the metaphor.

But I think you misunderstood my question. I was asking whether any of your great writers were novelists, playwrights, or story-tellers. In the West story-telling is at least as old as the Iliad, and the greatest writer in English, Shakespeare, was both a playwright and a poet.
I can't classify hundreds of old Iranian poets and writers because I have not a comprehensive knowledge in literature and history but I just know there are a lot of literary treasures in Iran that are still unknown for art and literature enthusiasts
 
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I like good poetry, but I prefer fictional prose as an art form.

Story-telling is a very old occupation, but I think the novel is a fairly recent (19th Century) invention mainly of English and French writers. The novel was unknown in Shakespeare's day. The first great American novel, imho, was "Moby Dick," first published in 1851.

So I'd be surprised if there are any ancient Iranian novelists. But I'd be equally surprised if Iran didn't have story-telling in some form, either poetry or prose.
 
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I think the novel is a fairly recent (19th Century) invention mainly of English and French writers. The novel was unknown in Shakespeare's day.
Some consider Murasaki Shikibu's "Tale of Genji" to be the first novel. Cervantes's novel "Don Quixote" would have been contemporary with Shakespeare. The "Arabian Nights" (Thousand and One Nights) is a collection of Middle Eastern stories. I've never read it, but I think it is one of those classics that everyone who aspires to be well-read should read.
 
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