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Hello, all! こんにちは、全員。 元気ですか。僕は元気です。
I figured I should make a thread for all my future grammar questions instead of making a bunch of small ones focusing on just a single piece of grammar.
My first question is in regards to いく when attached to the て form of a verb. It is supposed to show a change or a action started in the past and will continue into the future.
今曇りになってくっている。 It is becoming cloudy now.
古い車を探していく。I will look for a old car.
What I am not sure is how to exactly translate these sentences. Is the meaning of いく derived more from the context?
Next is ということは which is supposed to turn a sentence into a topic noun clause. I think it translates to the fact that X means Y.
君が仕事の連絡しないということは部長が怒っている。。The fact you do not respond to work messages means the boss is mad.
私たちがあの料理店で食べるということは料理は美味しいよ。The fact the we eat at that restaurant means the food is good!
I have another grammar question,but I have a forum question first. What is better for all of your, posting about a single piece of grammar or just asking all my questions in one post, like this one?
 

Mike Cash

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It is poor form to start a new thread without even acknowledging replies to previous threads one has started.
 
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Sorry about that.:(:notworthy: This is my first time using a forum of any kind and I am not sure about the etiquette. I will be sure to respond before making a new thread.
 

Toritoribe

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Probably you used 全員 as the translation of "everyone", but it doesn't make sense. 皆さん is used instead.

1)
The following thread might be helpful.
て・+行く・+来る [Grammar | Japan Forum

曇りになってくっている doesn't make sense. Do you mean 曇りになってきている, maybe? If so, it's not wrong, but I would say 曇ってきた or 曇ってきている. These are conjugations of ~てくる, not ~ていく, anyway.

2)
In the structure A ということは B, B is the cause/reason of A. Thus, your second example is not appropriate in this structure since "the boss is mad" is not the cause/reason of your not responding to work messages.

私たちがあの料理店で食べるということは、料理が美味しいということだよ。
(This sentence sounds too much explanatry, though. 私たちがあの店で食べるのは、料理が美味しいからだ is far more natural.)
 
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Thanks for the advice, Toritoribe.
I feel like my understanding of the grammar that I do know is now somewhat questionable. I always just read the grammar and listened to the lessons, but it appears there is much more. Because of this I to just review all my grammar on here.
First off is から, the form to say "because." From what I know the reason comes after から. It looks like ので is the politer form of から。
タケくんのお母さんの手作りは美味しいから毎日タケくんの家で食べに行きたい。Because Take's Mom's handmade food is delicious, I want to go to his house to eat everyday. If ので is the politer from of からcould I just use ので instead of  から and the sentence would just be politer?
Next is でしょう and だろう. These two show the speaker's conjecture based on his personal knowledge and seems to just soften statements; with だろう being the informal and でしょう being the formal form.
明日は暑いだろう。Tomorrow will be hot. The だろう is showing conjecture on the part of the speaker, right?
I would extend my thanks to all of you who put your time in to answer and correct our Japanese questions. I really appreciate! :thumbsup::embarrased:
 

Toritoribe

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タケくんのお母さんの手料理は美味しいから、毎日タケくんの家食べに行きたい。
手作り refers to all handmade things including furniture, cloths or everything.
タケくんの家 is the destination to go, not the location of eating in this sentence, so に is used here.

As for the difference between から and ので, "softer" would be more appropriate than "politer". In fact, 美味しいですから is politer than 美味しいので. 美味しいですので is not wrong, but could sound too much polite, just like "business honorific".
ので is hardly used when the main clause has a strong mood such like order, invitation or expressing the speaker's strong will. It's considered that this is from the softer nuance of ので.
e.g.
○もうすぐ出来るから、おとなしく待っていなさい。
×もうすぐ出来るので、おとなしく待っていなさい。


Yes for the second question.
 
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Thank you. どうもありがとうござい。
クラスが始まるから、座ってください。 Because the class will start please sit. I would use から here because it is a order, right?
この町は忙しいからここに住んでいますせん。Because this town is busy I do not like here. Since this is the speaker's opinion I would use から, right?
その車は高いので僕が買えない。Because that car is expensive I cannot buy it. I think ので is used, but I feel like it is wrong here.
 

Toritoribe

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どうもありがとうござい。
どうもありがとうございます. You can't omit this ます.

クラスが始まるから、座ってください。 Because the class will start please sit. I would use から here because it is a order, right?
Yes, but 始まりますから is more appropriate since 座ってください is the polite form.
クラス usually refers to "classroom". 授業 is more common for "class" as "lesson".
"Hard" doesn't mean "impossible", thus, 授業が始まりますので can be correct when the main clause is very polite/respectful request such like お座りください.

この町は忙しいからここに住んでいますせん。Because this town is busy I do not like here. Since this is the speaker's opinion I would use から, right?
The translation of "busy" should be にぎやか or せわしない in that case.
住んでいますせん doesn't make sense. Even the correct form 住んでいません doesn't mean "I do not like here".
Both 好きではありません and 住んでいません are not "strong will", so there is no problem with using ので. It's the same also for その車は高いので僕には買えない.
 
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どうもありがとうござい。Does removing the ます make ありがとうございます less polite?

So, basically, から should be used for informal or formal situations and ので in formal situations or when I want to soften something, right? I should use ので when the main clause is polite or to soften.

Also その車は高いので僕には買えない why do you use には?

Thanks for all the help.
 

Mike Cash

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どうもありがとうござい。Does removing the ます make ありがとうございます less polite?
It ma it sou li the la ha go cu off.

Where did you get ありがとうござい from? I can't imagine you have seen it anywhere. Were you basing it off of having seen things like いらっしゃい and ごめんなさい?
 

Toritoribe

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どうもありがとうござい。Does removing the ます make ありがとうございます less polite?
As I wrote, you can't omit ます since it doesn't make sense. You never say あり as the casual form of あります, right?
ございます is the euphonic change of ござります, which is the polite form of ござる, but you can't use ござる here, either, unless you are not playing a roll in a period drama.

So, basically, から should be used for informal or formal situations and ので in formal situations or when I want to soften something, right? I should use ので when the main clause is polite or to soften.
It's not "formal vs. informal" but "polite vs. casual/non-polite". The -masu form is a polite from, not formal form. Casual/Non-polite forms can be appropriate even in some formal situations.
As for the difference between から and ので, one more thing you should remember is that ので can't be attached to guess forms, even for the polite form ~でしょう. You need to use から for だろう/でしょう.
e.g.
○寒いでしょうから、中に入ってください。
×寒いでしょうので、中に入ってください。

Plus, take care when the predicate of the subordinate clause is a na-adjective or "noun + copula". Unlike から, な is used for ので with casual forms.
e.g.
きれいので/ですので、見とれてしまいました。
きれいから/ですから、見とれてしまいました。
学生ので/ですので、働いていません。
学生から/ですから、働いていません。

These differences are more important for learners than the subtle difference in meaning, I believe.

Also その車は高いので僕には買えない why do you use には?
は rules the whole sentence, thus, the subject of 買えない is interpreted as その車, not 僕, in that sentence. に indicates criterion(基準) there. There is no problem with その車は高いので、僕はこの車を買います since the topic is changed in the main clause, and it's not talking about その車.
 
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どうもありがとうございます。Sorry about the ます question. I thought I wrote the ます and that you omitted it. :DI wrote that before work and I was trying to get it posted before I had to leave.

Thanks again! I will not worry too much about the differences between から and ので. I did not know I could not use ので with  でしょう or だろう.

I have not studied に when used as the criterion. I will have to look into that.

こんにちは、皆は元気ですか。僕は元気です。

My next question is about けど and ですが. Both seem to mean "but." Again it seems that ですが is more formal. Also I hear ですが at the end of a lot of sentences and I think it acts as a softening device. I almost forgot to mention I do know who to use けど when it follows nouns and na-adjectives you add だ before the noun or adjective. With ですが you do not use it with the polite form of verbs.

これは美味しいけど食べない。This is delicious, but I will not eat it.
大体一時午後に僕は仕事を出るけど今日十二午前に出る。 I leave work at around 1 pm, but I will leave at 12 am today.
今僕は忙しですが手伝える。I am busy right now, but I can help.

Also, how do you say "dishwasher" in Japanese? Not the machine like a person who washes them.

Thanks.
 

Toritoribe

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You should compare the two adversative conjunctions けど and が, not ですが. が can be attached to both polite and non-polite forms as same as けど/けれど/けれども (cf. あるが/ありますが, 高いが/高いですが, きれいだが/きれいですが, 学生だが/学生ですが).

The two clauses preceding and following が have high independency with each other, so you need to unify the level of the politeness in the two clauses. Thus, your last example should be 今僕は忙しですが、手伝えます. As for けど, the level of the politeness is decided by the verb in the main clause, so 今僕は忙しいけど手伝えます is OK.
けど tends to be preferred in conversations since it sounds softer than が.

大体一時午後に僕は仕事を出るけど今日十二午前に出る。 I leave work at around 1 pm, but I will leave at 12 am today.
大体午後一時に僕は仕事場/会社を出るけど、今日は十二時に出る。

Also, how do you say "dishwasher" in Japanese? Not the machine like a person who washes them.
皿洗い
 
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どうもありがとうございました。

I did not know that the level of politeness had to be the same with が.

One final question about けど and が , is が politer or is it more a written form?
 
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Thanks for the info!

My next question is about たら and えば. These two confuse me.

From what I gather たら means "if or when." It acts as a conditional and seems to go "If X we will do Y." The ら attaches to the plain past of verbs, nouns, and adjectives.

ジャックさんは暇であれば、君がジャックさんの家で泳ぎに行かないか。 If Jack is free want to go to Jack's house to swim?
これは安ければ、僕がこれを買おう。 If this is cheap I will buy it.


As for えば I think it means "While X then Y." I am honestly a bit confused on this one. It attaches to verbs by changing the final う to a え then adding ば . For I-adjectives you remove the い and add ければ . And for nouns and na-adjectives you add であれば.

雨が降れば、傘が必要だよ。 While it is raining a umbrella is necessary.
ここに本部長がいれば、働いて。 While the boss is here work.
 

Toritoribe

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There are so many threads regarding the conditional clause in this forum.

たら vs. ば vs. と? Conditonals | Japan Forum
Some Japanese Questions | Japan Forum
もし and ならば | Japan Forum
Difference between ~なら, ~えば form and ~と | Japan Forum
Need a word or phrase translated? | Page 286 | Japan Forum
場合(?) | Japan Forum

Your examples are all -ba conditionals, by the way.
cf.
暇だったら
安かったら

Also, you need to reread our replies again, especially about the subject marker in a conditional clause or the particle for the destination.
 
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おはようございます、皆さん。元気ですか。僕は元気です。

どうもありがとうございます。Thanks for the help!

I have looked through the threads you suggested, reread your replies, and checked my books and I think I understand. :unsure:

たら is used in one-off situations as you said. So I assume this just means in a situation that does not occur frequently you would use たら.

芸能人と会ったら、僕は僕の帽子をサインしてださいと聞く。 If I meet the TV star I will ask his him to sing my hat. I am assuming this is a one-off situation and does not occur often. I used は since the subject is the same in both the main clause, the second one, and the first one, the conditional one.

えば is used in situations that occur more often or repeatedly or generally.

僕がサムさんと一緒に電車に乗れば、トリさんは二人はどこに行ったのが知りたい。If I ride the train with Sam, Tori will want to know where we went. I am a bit unsure about the が and は here. The subject is different so I know I should use が for the conditional, but for the main clause I am worried something is wrong with it.

For と I am confused because my book tells me that you use it when the main clause is something out of one's control. Or it says that the result is something expected or natural.

君が今出ないと電車に乗らない。 If you do not leave now you will not ride the train. Not being able to ride the train if you do not leave now, we assume the person is late, is a natural result.

As for に when used with destination I am confused because I learned that で marks the location that one does a action.

公園で水を飲む。 To drink water at the park.

公園に水を飲みに行く。 To go and drink water at the park.

Why is the に used instead of で ?

Thanks. One funny thing I noticed is that サムさん sounds like Samson. ;)
 

Toritoribe

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1)
芸能人会ったら、(僕は)僕の帽子サインしてださいと頼む/お願いするだろう

と会う is not wrong, but と is "mutual", so it often has a nuance of "He and I both went there and met (for instance, I arranged to meet him)." に会う is more appropriate for "I met him by chance".
"To ask one to do something" is 頼む/お願いする, not 聞く.
askの意味 - goo辞書 英和和英

2)
僕がサムさんと一緒に電車に乗ったら、トリさんは二人どこに行くか知りたがるだろう

乗れば is not wrong, but it could have a nuance "乗らなければ、知りたがらない", as I wrote in a thread.
You can't use the -tai form for others since you can't (exactly) know others' feelings.

You seem to be misunderstanding. The subject marker in conditional clauses is always が. は is used when the subject of the whole sentence is the same, so it's considered that this は is out of the conditional clause.
cf.
僕は芸能人に会ったら、僕の帽子にサインしてださいと頼むだろう。  = 僕は、僕が芸能人に会ったら、

3)
今すぐ出ないと電車に乗ないよ。 would be the most natural.

4)
Because the main verb is 行く, not 飲む. Thus, 飲みに行く is more likely "to go to the park in order to drink water there" rather than "to go and drink".
 
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どうもありがとうございます。

I see! The difference between に and と is very interesting.

The bit about the conditional clause is super helpful! Now I know that the conditional always takes が unless the subject is the same in the main clause in which cause I can use は in either clause.

For the second point I have not covered that grammar yet so I am do not understand, but it seems I understand the basics of these conditionals.

The part about に when used with verbs is amazing. I have been using that wrong for so long. THANK YOU!
 

Toritoribe

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The difference between に and と is very interesting.
The difference is clearer between ~と話す and ~に話す than 会う. While ~と話す is mutual "to talk with ~", ~に話す is unilateral "to talk to ~".
 
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どうもありがとうございます。I read that どうもありがとうございました is more polite then どうもありがとうございます is this true?

My next question is about くせに and のに. They both seem to mean "despite." To use you attach it to the plain form of verbs and i-adjectives directly and for na-adjectives and nouns you put な before のに。 The structure seems to be "Despite the expectation of A, B goes counter to them. At the end of a sentence it shows dissatisfaction over a unexpected result or is a admonishment when direct at someone.

天気は寒いのに、かれが上着を聞いていない。  Despite the cold weather, he is not wearing a jacket.
僕はたくさんの書類があるのに家事した。 Despite having lots of paperwork, I did house work.

I do not know what difference くせに has.

I really appreciate all the help. :notworthy:
 

Toritoribe

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どうもありがとうございます。I read that どうもありがとうございました is more polite then どうもありがとうございます is this true?
Not really. It's not the problem of the level of politeness, but the tense issue.

寒いのに、彼上着を着ていない。
が unnecessarily emphasizes 彼.
It would be just a typo, but 聞く is "to hear" and 着る is "to wear".

僕はたくさんの事務仕事があるのに家事した。
家事 is not the stem of a -suru verb.

An explanation regarding のに in my previous post; An adversative conjunction のに is used for the case that the main clause is opposite to the situation that is normally considered to be happened as the result of the clause preceding のに.
The main clause is not always "dissatisfaction or admonishment". There is no problem with 寒いのに来てくれてありがとう, for instance.

くせに is always has a nuance of looking down on it.
子供のくせに生意気なことを言うな。
あいつは嘘をついたくせに謝らない。

Thus, 嘘をついたのに謝らない is also OK, but you can't say 寒いくせに来てくれてありがとう.
 
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どうもありがとうございます。

Thanks for all advice! That sentence does not make much sense with 着る.:roflmao: The nuance between のに and くせに is very cool.

I have seen some する verbs without the を and other with it. Is there a system to which take the を and others do not?

My next question is about し. It attaches to I-adjectives and the plain form of verbs directly and だ is put before し  when it comes after a na-adjective or noun. It seems to mean "among other things." Like It is sunny among, other things.

僕は今日の天気は晴れだし、近く公園を歩こう。 Today's weather is sunny, among other things, so I will walk in the nearby park.
キムさんはあのパスコンは安いし、買う。 That pc is cheap, among other things, and Kim will buy it.

My other question is about 気 which is attached to the plain form of verbs and it followed by がある and means "the will to do X." I am a little unsure about the nuance of this one.

僕は働いてきてから、勉強をする気がある。 After I come back from work I have the will to study.
タムさんはこの魚の味はよくないし、食べる気がない。Because this fish's flavor is not good, among other things, Tam does not have the will to eat it.
 

Toritoribe

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1)
Dictionaries must have the definition.
せんたく【洗濯】
[名](スル)
せんたく【洗濯】の意味 - goo国語辞書

かいもの【買(い)物】
[名](スル)
かいもの【買(い)物】の意味 - goo国語辞書

Thus, these nouns are also the stem of -suru verbs. (I.e., 洗濯する and 買い物する are valid.)

2)
The basic concept of し is listing actions/states.
雨が降ってるし風も強いから、外に出たくない。

The usage in your examples is a bit special. し indicates the reason/cause, and suggests there are other reasons to do or no to do. It's considered just a variation of から for reason. (In other words, you'd better try to use it after you grasp the basic usage of し completely.)
近くの公園を散歩しよう。今日は晴れてるし。
キムさんはあのパスコンを買うだろう。安いし。

3)
Unlike ~する気がない, ~する気がある is hardly used for "I have a will to do because...".

働いて帰ってきたあと、勉強したい(と思っている)。

この魚はおいしくないから、タムさんは食べる気がない。
タムさんはこの魚を食べる気がない。おいしくないし。
 
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