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meaning of つんつるてんなん

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Hi All,
I am reading a story and one of the characters is a 座敷わらし (a kind of child spirit)
Anyway a boy and his grandmother are talking about when she saw one as a child. The boy asks what does the 座敷わらし look like?

Reminiscing, She is asleep in her bed and the 座敷わらし has just whispered something into her ear.

「あー、それで目をあけたらね、それがなんと座敷わらし だったのさ。昔ながらの紺がすりの着物で、へこ帯をし めてね、つんつるてんなんだよ、着物は」

Can someone please let me know what つんつるてんなん is?
Also why are they using the Tara form?

Is she saying.....
If I open my eyes, what 座敷わらし would it be. A antique dark blue kimono and a tied up belt. ???

よろしくお願いします
 
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meaning of つんつるてんなん

なん is part of なんだよ which is short for なのです.

たら doesn't have to be conditional. It can mean 'When' as in when I opened my eyes.

As for つんつるてん
 

Mike Cash

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This is at least the third thread in the last couple of weeks in which the 〜たら question has come up.

It isn't "if" here, as common sense ought to make obvious, but "when".
 
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meaning of つんつるてんなん

Dunno what's up with the attitude MC. Take a chill pill :).

己所不欲、勿施於人。
 

Mike Cash

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meaning of つんつるてんなん

Dunno what's up with the attitude MC. Take a chill pill :).

己所不欲、勿施於人。
Why do you ASSUME "attitude" in my post?

It contained simple and dispassionate statements of fact.

This is at least the third time it has come up. Context and common sense do indicate that in this case the conditional renders in English as a "when" statement, not an "if" statement.

"When" statements are also conditional, by the way. Even in English.

If you wish to address me, please do so in either English or Japanese. I don't care to go hunt for translations of Chinese.
 
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meaning of つんつるてんなん

Pretty sure 'when' is not a conditional. When I have money I will goto Japan is not exactly if I have money I will go to Japan. When I open I eyes is not if I open my eyes. Very different concepts.

That famous phrase is part of 国語 curriculum in many schools in Japan. Surely you can decode it.
 

Mike Cash

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Pretty sure 'when' is not a conditional. When I have money I will goto Japan is not exactly if I have money I will go to Japan. When I open I eyes is not if I open my eyes. Very different concepts.

That famous phrase is part of 国語 curriculum in many schools in Japan. Surely you can decode it.
In your example, the condition which will trigger the trip is in both cases the accumulation of money. If/when are markers which indicate a conditional phrase. So despite being pretty sure, you're very wrong.



I never studied 国語 in school in Japan. Were you under the impression I did?
 
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meaning of つんつるてんなん

Not going to hi jack the thread but I think you kinda need to study grammar again if you think when and if are like たら and ば. When is not 仮定. Look up what 仮 means. たら here means 未来の確定条件を表すこと. Which is 'when' in English. 確定 and 仮定 are like polar opposites. たら has both functions. No it isn't obvious and no, when is not the equivalent of たら.
 
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Thanks guys,
So it's when your clothes are to short in this case.

When I opened my eyes, there was the 座敷わらし。it was wearing an ancient dark blue kimono tied with a sash. The kimono was too small for his size.
 

Mike Cash

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meaning of つんつるてんなん

Not going to hi jack the thread but I think you kinda need to study grammar again if you think when and if are like たら and ば. When is not 仮定. Look up what 仮 means. たら here means 未来の確定条件を表すこと. Which is 'when' in English. 確定 and 仮定 are like polar opposites. たら has both functions. No it isn't obvious and no, when is not the equivalent of たら.
Never said it was, and if you're going to netcop on attitude, then lead by example and dial the condescension down a notch or two. "Look up 仮" is too 生意気 by half.
 
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"When" statements are also conditional, by the way. Even in English.
You sure you didn't say this? Case in point when is a time clause, 'if' a conditional clause in English. たら can be both time and conditional clause hence the confusion. Just stating facts.
 

Mike Cash

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You sure you didn't say this? Case in point when is a time clause, 'if' a conditional clause in English. たら can be both time and conditional clause hence the confusion. Just stating facts.
I said context and common sense make it obvious it is "when" rather than "if"....not that 〜たら is always "when".
 
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I still fail to see how たら which can be a time clause and conditional clause is obvious to an English speaker when in English you use 2 separate words for these concepts.

Your Japanese is very advanced hence you may see the logical leap but not everyone sees this. Hence 'obvious' was the attitude I was referring to. It is far from obvious to a intermediate or beginner of Japanese.
 
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I use 大辞林 DAIJIRIN. Have a look on google play. It does cost $$ but I'm sure you have more luck on android ;). It was the only one available at the time (back when I used a 3GS!).

Now all sorts dictionaries are available. 大辞泉 広辞苑 etc. Pick your fav :)
 
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