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Help with understanding あいだ with example

letslearn

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皆さんこんにちは、
I was doing some homework exercises and the following (fill in the blank) question came up.
There are four possible answers but the only two I'm interested in are
あいだ
and
あいだに

Q. 電車にのっている(  )ずっと本を飲んでいた。

I chose あいだに, however the answer sheet said あいだ.
Can some one explain what is the difference?
Is it because あいだ is a noun and 電車にのっている is a adjectival phrase?

よろしくお願いします
 

Toritoribe

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本をんでいた(I believe you can't drink any book.;))

Those two expressions are totally different in meaning. AあいだB means "B throughout A". A and B are both state, -te iru form or durative verbs. Whereas AあいだにB is "B happens/occurs/is done at a point of time of A".
In your example sentence, the subject was reading a book all the way on the train, therefore あいだ is the correct answer. If the main clause is 本を読み終えた, the answer is あいだに, since 読み終えた refers to the moment they finished reading the book.
 

letslearn

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本をんでいた(I believe you can't drink any book.;))

Those two expressions are totally different in meaning. AあいだB means "B throughout A". A and B are both state, -te iru form or durative verb. Whereas AあいだにB is "B happens/occurs/is done at a point of time of A". In your example sentence, the subject was reading a book all the way on the train, therefore あいだ is the correct answer. If the main clause is 本を読み終えた, the answer is あいだに, since 読み終えた refers to the moment they finished reading the book.
"本を読んでいた"Thanks for the correction, HA,HA ( I thought it tasted funny....and was a little dry on the throat)
I will read some more examples and see if I can make a couple of my own sentences to make sure I get it.
Thanks toritoribesan
 

letslearn

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here are two sentences I came up with.
私は冬休みのあいだ、毎日スキーをしていました。
私は海軍にいるあいだに、いろいろな国に行きました。
 

Toritoribe

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Yes, those are both correct.:thumbsup:
 

ledojaeger

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I want to jump in on あいだ too!

For a while I've tried to understand the various ways of saying 'while' in Japanese. ~nagara, uchi ni, aida, etc. So this thread is very helpful to me.

I want to understand toritoribe's advice as well.
So, aida by itself refers to something throughout a period of time. ?
And aida ni refers to something more specific during a period of time. ?

From personal experience I'll make two examples of things I might tell people:

日本にいる間、よくコンビニでおにぎりを買っていました。While I was in Japan, I often bought onigiri at convenience stores.

日本にいる間に、大阪城を見ました。While I was in Japan, I saw the Ōsaka Castle.
 

Toritoribe

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As I wrote, in the structures AあいだB and AあいだにB, A is always either state, -te iru form or durative verbs. B is also either state, -te iru form or durative verbs in AあいだB, whereas B refers to a point of time in A in AあいだにB. あいだに is interchangeable with うちに in most cases.

Your examples are both correct. See the difference between the following sentences and the originals.
私は冬休みのあいだに、スキーに行きました
私は海軍にいるあいだ、いろいろな国に行っていました
日本にいる間に、コンビニでおみやげを買いました
日本にいる、毎晩テレビを見ていました
 

ledojaeger

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Ah, so うちに is mostly exchangeable? Interesting. I'll have to look into that later. Thank you!!

よかったら、もう一度文を使ってみます。

1)六月の間に、日本に初めて行きました。
During June, I went to Japan for the first time.

2)高校の間、仲のいい友達とたくさん過ごしていました。
During High School, I spent a lot of time with good friends.

3)運転しているうちに、音楽を聴きました。
While I drove, I listened to music.
 

Toritoribe

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1)
The future tense 六月の間に/うちに、日本に初めて行きます。 is natural(六月の間に/うちに means "sometime in June" in this case), but 六月に、日本に初めて行きました。 is more common for a past event.

2)
高校の間、仲のいい友達とよく一緒に過ごしていました。
The use of あいだ is OK.

3)
うちに/あいだに is valid when you need to listen(finish listening) music while driving/before getting off the car. If you listen music once or intermittently, 運転しているあいだ、音楽を聴くことがありました or 時々音楽を聴いていました。 would be more common and natural.
 

ledojaeger

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Interesting. I'll have to keep that in mind - the future versus past difference in tone.
Is that true of dates in general? If I said that I'll do something on the 31st of August future (aida ni/uchi ni), that makes sense. But if I refer to the past, then simply -ni could suffice.

Is issho ni a natural prerequisite for sugosu if I mean to say 'spent time together'?

Thank you for that explanation. It's a lot to keep track of!!

I apologize, letslearn, I feel like I stole your thread. :embarrased:
 

Toritoribe

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Interesting. I'll have to keep that in mind - the future versus past difference in tone.
Is that true of dates in general? If I said that I'll do something on the 31st of August future (aida ni/uchi ni), that makes sense. But if I refer to the past, then simply -ni could suffice.
Yes, that's right. You can also use ~中に.

8月中に宿題を提出します。
8月31日に宿題を提出しました。

Is issho ni a natural prerequisite for sugosu if I mean to say 'spent time together'?
Yes.
 

ledojaeger

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Thank you!!
One of my books has an interesting take on the function of うちに as a 'while'.
Meaning takes many forms depending on the usage. However, this was the overall explanation.

"[uchi ni] creates a time adverbial phrase/clause that in many cases shows the time period within which the action expressed by the main verb should be performed in order to prevent some problems understood in the context."

i.e. 数ヶ月のうちに日本語が話せるようになるでしょう。"You should become able to speak Japanese within a few months."

Does this sound accurate for usage/description of uchi ni?
 

Toritoribe

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Hmm, I think "should be performed in order to prevent some problems understood in the context" is one of the functions of うちに, and it's hardly to say "in many cases". For instance, うちに expresses "it is not common that the action expressed by the main verb is performed after the time period of the time adverbial phrase/clause" rather than "should be performed in order to prevent some problems" in your example sentence.
other examples of not "should be performed"
運転しているうちに、眠くなりました。
日本にいるうちに、日本語が話せるようになりました。
海軍にいるうちに、語学を学ぼうと思います。

うちに can be replaced with あいだに in these examples, but うちに often more strongly suggests "it is not common" or "should be performed" than あいだに.
 
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