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GENKI I, lesson 4 practice section I

Julie.chan

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I'm taking a step back and doing the non-partner practice sections of GENKI I, lesson 4. This is the first set, pages 115-116. Could someone look over this and let me know of any errors?

The questions themselves are indicated in bold. My answers are regular weight (i.e. not bold).

A. Look at the picture and tell what you see, using あります or います.

この町、広いですね。私たちはスーパーを見ています。あのスーパーのよこに自転車もレストランもあります。自転車の左にかわいい猫がいますよ!多分あの男の猫です。この男は本もかばんもあります。読んでいますか。それはちょっとあぶないです。とにかくレストランの前に何かあります。本屋ですか。本屋だと思います。本屋のとなりにゆうびんきょくがあります。ゆうびんきょくと本屋の前に女がいます。この女はレストランの前にいる犬へ行っています。ゆうびんきょくと本屋の後ろで小さいこうえんがあります。

レストランのとなりに学校があると思います。この学校の右に銀行があります。銀行のよこにバスがあるバスていがあります。銀行の左にコーヒーショップがあります。コーヒーショップのとなりにびょういんがあります。びょういんの前にとしょかんがあります。としょかんのよこに人がいます。本があると思います。

B. Answer the following questions.

1. あなたの町に日本のレストランがありますか。

はい、新しい日本のレストランがあります。

2. あなたの家に猫がいますか。

いいえ、猫がありません。でも、母の家は犬があります。

3. あなたの学校に何がありますか。

もう学生じゃないので学校もないです。

4. あなたの学校に日本人の学生がいますか。

同じですが、町の学校はいるかもしれません。

5. デパートに何がありますか。

ぜんぜんデパートで買わないから知りません。自分の町はデパートがありません。

6. この教室にだれがいますか。

きょうしつじゃないです。自分の部屋です。とにかく私だけいます。

7. 動物園に何がいますか。

動物えんはもちろん動物があります。人もたくさんあります。

8. あなたの国に何がありますか。

アメリカに?たくさんありますよ。大きい国です。町も、森も、車も、山も、うみも、会社も…

ミシガンはスリーピングベアすな山があります。五大こもあります。

9. あなたの家に何がありますか。

自分の部屋はコンピューターも机もいすも本も服も紙もくつも時計もあります。それだけじゃないです。

C. Look at Takeshi's schedule for the week and answer the following questions.

1. 木曜日に英語のクラスがありますか。

はい

2. 火曜日にコンピューターのクラスがありますか。

いいえ

3. 木曜日にフランス語のクラスがありますか。

いいえ

4. 土曜日にクラスがありますか。

週末ですよ。もちろんクラスがないです。デイトがあります。

5. 水曜日に何がありますか。

フランス語のクラスも英語のクラスもコンピューターのクラスもあります。

6. 金曜日に何がありますか。

英語のテストもパーティーもあります。

7. 日曜日に何がありますか。

アルバイトがあります。
 

Mike Cash

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Go back through and check the あります/います distinction. You either don't understand it or you don't pay attention to it.
 

Julie.chan

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My understanding was that いる is for people and animals, ある for everything else. But it looks more like I slipped up and used the wrong word in a couple of places (probably from too much grinding at this; too much repetition makes what's being repeated an automatic motion), so let's fix that.

いいえ、猫がありません。でも、母の家は犬があります。
Of course, that should be いる in both cases.

動物えんはもちろん動物があります。人もたくさんあります。
Of course, that should be いる in both cases.

So this is the corrected version of those:

B2. あなたの家に猫がいますか。

いいえ、猫がいません。でも、母の家に犬がいます。

B7. 動物園に何がいますか。

動物えんはもちろん動物がいます。人もたくさんいます。

EDIT: Also corrected a particle in B2. Probably not necessary, but it's what GENKI is teaching at this particular point.

Were there any others I missed?
 

Majestic

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3, 6, 9, I recommend not saying じゃないです, and instead using the more proper (at least for study purposes) ではないです, or, if you are using -masu forms, use ではありません. Since the questions are framed in the polite -masu form, your answers should also be polite. If not, they come across as rude.
じゃない is more for spoken Japanese, and one hears and uses it often, so it is very handy to know. However, in basic writing (and speaking) it is important to realize that these types of contractions can come across as rude or abrupt or just weird. Plus, the form isn't correct for what you are trying to say in #6.
#4 What is in your country?
The answer shouldn't be the abrupt America?. Or, if you really want to clarify your country, you could say アメリカですか? or アメリカにですか? but I really think all of these are surplus to requirements, as is the よ again at the end of this sentence. I would just answer the question as asked. Since "country" can also be shorthand for "the place where you live" you could answer just by saying ミシガン州には五大湖があります。rather than saying the equivalent of "Huh? You mean America? We have lots of stuff..."etc.
Also, avoid the temptation to be funny or sarcastic in Japanese, because it rarely, rarely rarely translates well. In C#4, my feeling is that when it asks if there is class on the weekend, the correct and proper answer is simply, "No there is no class on the weekend". When you venture off into sarcasm, you assume too much about the reader. In Japan, there may well be classes on Saturday. There are other class-related activities on the weekends. And so the question is completely valid from a Japanese person's point of view. So the answer you gave could well be rude or arrogant or ignorant of the situation (or all three). Perfectly fine if arrogant and rude is the effect you are hoping to achieve, but if you are a beginning student I recommend just sticking to the basic format presented in the question. Also, remember to avoid using よ. It is surplus to requirements at this stage, and adds an effect to the sentence that isn't needed or wanted.
"Date" should be デート

Avoid using よ. Avoid using よ. Avoid using よ.
Use it when you have a better grasp of grammar. Use it when you have a better grasp of politeness and humility as is hard-wired into the Japanese language.
 

Julie.chan

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Hm, OK, let's redo those sections:

B1. あなたの町に日本のレストランがありますか。

はい、日本のレストランがあります。新しいです。

B2. あなたの家に猫がいますか。

いいえ、猫がいません。でも、母の家で犬がいます。

B3. あなたの学校に何がありますか。

学生ではないので学校がありません。

B4. あなたの学校に日本人の学生がいますか。

学校がありません。町の学校は日本人がいるかもしれません。

B5. デパートに何がありますか。

それが分かりません。ぜんぜんデパートで買わないのです。

B6. このきょうしつにだれがいますか。

ここは私の部屋です。私だけいます。

B7. 動物園に何がいますか。

動物えんは動物も人もいます。子供がたくさんいます。

B8. あなたの国に何がありますか。

ミシガンに五大こがあります。スリーピングベアすな山もあります。

B9. あなたの家に何がありますか。

家に部屋があります。自分部屋に机もコンピューターも電話も時計もあります。

C1. 月曜日に英語のクラスがありますか。

はい。フランス語のクラスもコンピューターのクラスもあります。

C2. 火曜日にコンピューターのクラスがありますか。

いいえ。れきしのクラスがあります。学校の後サークルがあります。

C3. 木曜日にフランス語のクラスがありますか。

いいえ。火曜日と同じです。れきしのクラスがあります。学校の後サークルがあります。

C4. 土曜日にクラスがありますか。

いいえ。デートがあります。

C5. 水曜日に何がありますか。

フランス語のクラスも英語のクラスもコンピューターのクラスもあります。

C6. 金曜日に何がありますか。

英語のテストもパーティーもあります。

C7. 日曜日に何がありますか。

アルバイトがあります。クラスがぜんぜんありません。
 

Majestic

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Hm, OK, let's redo those sections:
And the result is a gazillion times better than the previous effort. Well done. To polish a bit more I would say:
B1 > maybe the second half could be 新しいレストランです。Of course, restaurant is inferred even without the insertion of that word, but somehow it sounds empty without it.
B2 > If you are going to embellish it, then maybe try...でも母は犬を飼っています might be better (although this may not be vocabulary you have acquired yet).
B3 & B4 Still sound snotty to me. The question isn't asking if you are a student or not. You could answer it with a bit of imagination. 私はもう学生ではないのですが、むかし私の学校には大きな図書館がありました for example. And, むかし、日本人の学生はいませんでした。When you say "学校がありません" you are denying the existence of a school.
B5: the answer sounds weird, but it would be slightly less weird if you said ...デパートで買い物しません。
B6 Didn't you just learn another, better structure for saying this?
B7 Hmmm, why don't you use that fabulous imagination in this type of question? It isn't asking you if there are animals in the zoo....that should be obvious. What kind of animals are there?
 

Julie.chan

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B3 & B4 Still sound snotty to me. The question isn't asking if you are a student or not.
Loaded questions that happen to include wrong assumptions are always going to be a tough one. If I were answering in English, I would have pointed out the incorrect assumptions in as blunt and concise terms as possible, or I would have gone along with it by giving some sort of sarcastic answer.

When you say "学校がありません" you are denying the existence of a school.
That was kind of my intention. I could have been specific about there being no school for me, but I thought it seemed superfluous since the word あなた was used in the question. If I was speaking in English and biting my tongue, I would have said "I don't have a school." or possibly "N/A". Unless I had some motive to answer the question, and in that case I would have said "No", with no further explanation.

the answer sounds weird, but it would be slightly less weird if you said ...デパートで買い物しません。
Ah, thanks.

Didn't you just learn another, better structure for saying this?
Do you mean しか?

The way I really wanted to answer was 私は一人です, but I avoided it because I wanted to include the use of いる in that. I guess I could have written it as 私は一人といます.

Hmmm, why don't you use that fabulous imagination in this type of question? It isn't asking you if there are animals in the zoo....that should be obvious. What kind of animals are there?
The only animal words I currently know are 犬、猫、クモ、蚊、ハエ、アリ、羊、馬、ヘビ、カマキリ、カメ、ウサギ. Very few of those would be seen (or, rather, something that people would want to see) in a zoo. Also, none of those possibilities are taught this early on in GENKI. My guess is that the authors of GENKI wanted learners to answer 「動物園に子供がいます」, because that's the only sensible word for this context actually taught by the book. I just happen to know 動物 as well (which isn't taught by GENKI I), so I figured hey, why not use it?
 
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Majestic

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Loaded questions
Why assume it is a loaded question? It is an exercise in a textbook, and shouldn't be approached as if you were being cross-examined in court. However, if you want to answer it sarcastically you can do that, its just that sarcasm in Japanese is a very advanced type of Japanese, so I strongly recommend to just view these as nothing more than simple questions. In other words, resist the urge to be sarcastic while still a beginner.
I could have been specific about there being no school for me, but I thought it seemed superfluous since the word あなた was used in the question. If I was speaking in English and biting my tongue, I would have said "I don't have a school."
Again, resist the urge for sarcasm, and try to just see these as textbook exercises. When you use sarcasm you are, in a sense, making fun of the questioner, and it just sounds weird here. Being properly sarcastic requires a very advanced level of Japanese. So you kind of have to choose between making a sarcastic answer that your current level of Japanese doesn't really allow you to make, or just answering the question simply and honestly. As one of the guys trying to help you learn, I recommend keeping it simple.
Do you mean しか?
Yes! You can use しか with the negative of います and still be within the scope of this lesson. But this brings me to the final point
The only animal words I currently know are
OK. Just know that its very tricky for us to decide when you want to challenge yourself by using advanced vocab, and when you want to stay within the scope of the text. I'm trying to take a hybrid approach where I point out places where you can indulge your muse. This seemed like one of those places.
 

mdchachi

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Regarding B7, I think it's
動物園に… or 動物園には…

and now is the time for you to learn ペンギン and コアラ. Because... why not.
 

AmerikaJin5

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Loaded questions that happen to include wrong assumptions are always going to be a tough one. If I were answering in English, I would have pointed out the incorrect assumptions in as blunt and concise terms as possible, or I would have gone along with it by giving some sort of sarcastic answer.
That won't fly in Japan! If you ever plan on traveling here, be forewarned. Not only does sarcasm come off totally wrong unless you have advanced Japanese abilities, but just in general you would never answer even bluntly in a typical social setting (let alone with sarcasm).
For example, if you go out for a meal with some Japanese acquaintances and someone asks you about your school, you'll answer "Oh, actually I do not attend school anymore, now I am doing [insert job, etc]" and you'll do it with the appropriate level of politeness. Even if the present company might find your sense of humor to be funny, the usage of sarcasm/humor at an unexpected/inappropriate time could stick out like a sore thumb in some cases.
Just a heads up:emoji_ok_hand:
 

Julie.chan

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However, if you want to answer it sarcastically you can do that, its just that sarcasm in Japanese is a very advanced type of Japanese, so I strongly recommend to just view these as nothing more than simple questions. In other words, resist the urge to be sarcastic while still a beginner.
Oh, I've never even considered being sarcastic in Japanese. I'm even careful with how I use it in English (I use it in a very particular, subtle way so that the misinterpretation still becomes something good, not something bad; there's no way in Hell I'm trying this in a language I haven't mastered). I was only attempting to brush off the question, mostly because I wanted to keep my sentences simple. I'm not even really confident in how I use words like でも, けど, and が at this point. But at the same time, I didn't want to skip the questions.

But point taken: bluntness doesn't fly. I'll see what I can manage.

Just know that its very tricky for us to decide when you want to challenge yourself by using advanced vocab, and when you want to stay within the scope of the text.
I never look things up while I'm speaking or writing as a general rule. I made a special exception to look up how to say "Sleeping Bear Sand Dunes" and "Great Lakes", but that's just because those are notable things in and around my state that I appreciate and I figure I ought to learn how to say these. I generally consider looking vocabulary up, especially, while writing to be counterproductive because it causes it to be stored only in short-term memory and forgotten moments later.

For learning new things, I'm using GENKI (in order) exclusively now, except when there's a particular vocabulary term I really really want to know. Even ね and よ are discussed in a GENKI lesson I'm past (lesson 2), albeit briefly. Anything outside of that scope is prior known stuff; it's just that a lot of it was learned wrongly (mostly because of over-dependence on dictionaries).

Besides, I have zero interest in zoos or most of the animals found there. Now, if there was an arachnid zoo, that would be different...

Regarding B7, I think it's
動物園に… or 動物園には…
Yeah, another slip of the pen. Or, key.

and now is the time for you to learn ペンギン and コアラ. Because... why not.
Actually, although I did try to make it so, that list wasn't exhaustive, it turns out. I also know 牛 and ニワトリ, and while I forgot about penguins (as an animal, not the word), ペンギン is another one. Also キリン, so there's another zoo animal to the mix. コアラ is one I'll probably remember just because it's a loanword.
 

Julie.chan

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OK, let's give that a shot:

B3. あなたの学校に何がありますか。

もう学生ではありませんが、過去の高校に紙がありました。 (My high school didn't have anything notable that I can think of other than great teachers, so nothing interesting I can say here. Oh well.)

B4. あなたの学校に日本人の学生がいますか。

あの時日本人の学校がいましたけど、今の答えが分かりません。
 

OoTmaster

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For B3 lose the もう just "学生ではありません" is an appropriate response. Also instead of 分かりません in B4 I would suggest 知りません(しりません). As I'm assuming you mean that you don't know not that you don't understand.
 

mdchachi

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For B4.
You mistakenly said "Japanese school" (学校)not "Japanese students" (学生).
Rather than saying "I don't know the answer now" it sounds better to just say 今分かりません.
Here's another way to say it with some new vocabulary for you.
そのころ日本人の学生がいましたけど現在分かりません。
そのころ means "that time" or "those days." 現在 means currently or presently. When you say 今 it sounds kind of like "right this moment."
 

Julie.chan

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Also instead of 分かりません in B4 I would suggest 知りません(しりません). As I'm assuming you mean that you don't know not that you don't understand.
My understanding is that answering a question with 知りません (or 知らない) makes it sound like you're dismissing the question itself as being unimportant. I got this impression from expression note 8 in GENKI I (when I was leafing through it the first time), page 175. This is what it says:
If you don't know the answer to a question but should have thought about it, you should say わかりません instead of 知りません (see Lesson 4, Dialogue 2, for example). 知りません in such a context would sound rude, implying that your ignorance on that matter is none of the inquirer's business.
Have I misunderstood the distinction?

You mistakenly said "Japanese school" (学校)not "Japanese students" (学生).
Whoops.

Rather than saying "I don't know the answer now" it sounds better to just say 今分かりません.
Ah, alright.

そのころ means "that time" or "those days." 現在 means currently or presently. When you say 今 it sounds kind of like "right this moment."
OK, thanks.

How does げんざい compare to 昨今, out of curiosity?
 
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mdchachi

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My understanding is that answering a question with 知りません (or 知らない) makes it sound like you're dismissing the question itself as being unimportant. I got this impression from expression note 8 in GENKI I (when I was leafing through it the first time), page 175. This is what it says:

Have I misunderstood the distinction?
I agree with Genki on this one. Like if I ask my wife where is my charger? She might answer 知りません (or more likely 知らん). To mean I don't know and furthermore, you should know where you put it, why are you asking me?

How does げんざい compare to 昨今, out of curiosity?
I didn't even know this word. When I want to say recently I use 最近. And 現在 when I want to say currently or nowadays. You can also use このころ to mean nowadays.
 

OoTmaster

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My understanding is that answering a question with 知りません (or 知らない) makes it sound like you're dismissing the question itself as being unimportant. I got this impression from expression note 8 in GENKI I (when I was leafing through it the first time), page 175. This is what it says:
Not at all this is likely a mistake on mostly associating 分かりません with not understanding and 知りません with not knowing. I find little inconvenient things like this that I do as I'm mostly self taught.
 
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