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Comfort Women What do you think?

Which side do you believe regarding the "Comfort Women" issue?


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diceke

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:) :) Wow I am glad to see that you read about history. Geez thanks for telling us the US lost in VietNam. (serious rolling of the eyes here)
:giggle: :giggle: :giggle: :giggle: :giggle: :giggle:
Wow I never knew that you even knew that the US fought in Viet Nam. Geez, I should give you credit for doing a bit of research.
Great off topic post here.
Welcome. The whole world knows that the US is a warmongering capitalist. :cute: :giggle:

Has the US admitted its defeat? Why not compensate?
 

pipokun

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Please teach me English, obeika. What do you mean by "son of a gun". And when was the phrase coined?
Female victims in any wars have been the long-lasting issue without saying the recent 100 year senteced guy.

'Shoot refugees' Korean War letter went undisclosed
No Gun Ri survivors, who call the Army's 2001 investigation a "whitewash,"
are demanding a reopened investigation, compensation and a U.S. apology.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-04-13-korea-refugees_N.htm
I don't know why Korean people demand any compensation or appology for the military brothel in the Korean war. Probably you will also support them, right? Maybe a few years early?
 
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Obeika, I read somewhere long ago that Japanese people can't blame or think bad about their grandparents or parents once they died. Not so strange
because also in Dutch we say; About the death we tell only about the good things he or she did.
Do you insult a Korean?
One's daughter is kidnapped, and she is raped, Is there a parent consenting tacitly to it?
Did nobody help it?

[]Let's take the issue back to the late 1920's, how do you explain the Comfort Women issue to your children, if you are fortunate enough to have them?
It is very strange.
We are the future children.
And it is thought that they have the same doubt.
A crime without the evidence that there is not an eyewitness.
Non-logical testimony of a victim.
How do you explain these to children of the next generation?
Do not children in the future have the intellect?
The wonder story that I cannot explain it to children logically, and is such an abstruseness.
Please please teach it.
 

caster51

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a movie in 1959 of the korean and Japanese comfort women (in china?)
this movie expressed well about them of that time.
a comfort wamen said their dream after war " I want to save money and buy land in Shinjuku to open coffee shop?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrVbpzuAhSo
 
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Ma Cherie

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Welcome. The whole world knows that the US is a warmongering capitalist. :cute: :giggle:
Has the US admitted its defeat? Why not compensate?

We're not talking about the US or Vietnam, if you want to discuss that then start another thread, don't sit and bicker with other forum members. You're the only here one who is stirring up nonsense, and you haven't really contributed anything valuable to this thread. I've read everything you said on this thread it's just pointless drivel.


By the way, has anyone looked at this link? Someone might have posted it, but I don't know.
http://www.comfort-women.org/v2/index.html
 

caster51

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Comfort Women What do you think?
they were just prostitutes.
that is it.
Raping at that war in locals would be avoided because of brothel.
they did not need raping because of brothel.
forced thing was not needed because of money.
A lady might not win temptation of money at that time , too.
anyway raping and forced were not needed because of army's rule.
 

hanachan

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We're not talking about the US or Vietnam, if you want to discuss that then start another thread, don't sit and bicker with other forum members. You're the only here one who is stirring up nonsense, and you haven't really contributed anything valuable to this thread. I've read everything you said on this thread it's just pointless drivel.
Ma Cherie,
Before diceke's post, I asked to Obeika:
"Why Japan doesn't demand apology of napalm bombing and A-bomb bombing from the US?", what sophism will you make?"
Then he answered:
"You want to know the "real" reason? Japan lost, plain and simple. Like it or not that is what it comes down to and oh btw that is not a fallacy but a fact."
diceke's words may not be so good, but it's not so pointless in the recent some posts. I think.

As Obeika's logic, is not Japan blamed if she won?

diceke and some of others reacted to this point.
Sorry, my English is not enough to explain well.
 

pipokun

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...
By the way, has anyone looked at this link? Someone might have posted it, but I don't know.
http://www.comfort-women.org/v2/index.html
1965 Japan enters into a bilateral treaty with the Republic of Korea (though not Comfort Women's claims).
South Korea should have compensated the victims then.
Instead, the Korean government calculated the damage not only of the South, but also the North part and claimed Japan should compensate it.
Of course, Japan acknowledged the wrong-doing in the past and paid the money. But the Korean government spent it for their economic growth and unfortunately she had kept the diplomatic document secret to the public till recently.
(And it was a bit sad that a great Korean forumer here left here)
 

hanachan

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By the way, has anyone looked at this link? Someone might have posted it, but I don't know.
http://www.comfort-women.org/v2/index.html
The Gallery page, I found some "not comfort women's" photos.
"ツ坂?倪?塗窶「wツ人窶ーテッ" and "ツ航窶ケテウ窶ケテ射廱窶「テイナスd窶佚?" are not comfort women.
Is this site made with accurate knowledge? :eek:
described:
1937-1942 The Japanese military sets up a network of comfort stations wherever it sends its' troops.
but not described:
1945-1951 Japanese government sets up comfort stations for the occupation army.
(However, you can see the photo of comfort stations for GIs at the Gallery)
"ツ青ケツ静ュ窶佚・ツ焦ク窶堙娯?忍ナスm窶佚・ナ?ツスナ筑", "ツ身窶堙?ツ心窶堙?窶「テケ窶堋ョ窶佚・ヒ彗窶「ツ焦スq窶堙娯?佚・ニ探ツーニ池ニ湛"
...humiliating ad.
It's a reality Japan lost.

---question
Anyone knows who is ツ鞘┐窶ケテ看スq?
This site is her anti-Japan propaganda. no?
 
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diceke

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We're not talking about the US or Vietnam, if you want to discuss that then start another thread, don't sit and bicker with other forum members. You're the only here one who is stirring up nonsense, and you haven't really contributed anything valuable to this thread. I've read everything you said on this thread it's just pointless drivel.
Did you miss something? Go back to the preceding posts.

No, we are not talking about the US or Vietnam. I'm just pointing out to the hypocrisy of the victor's justice crap that Obeika claims to be a fact. One counter-example of the Vietnam War is enough to prove it false. Maybe it's best to put it this way: American exceptionalism.
 
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KirinMan

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Going off topic here,,,,,

Sorry, my English is not enough to explain well.
Do you actually expect people here to think that you have a poor understanding of English when you use use words like "sophism"?

I know for a fact that the majority of English speaking people that post here have absolutely no idea what that word means.

So what is your point?
 

hanachan

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Do you actually expect people here to think that you have a poor understanding of English when you use use words like "sophism"?
I know for a fact that the majority of English speaking people that post here have absolutely no idea what that word means.
So what is your point?
My major at University was psychology, so I know some words not used often in everyday life.
But I'm not a native English speaker, you already know that I have many mistakes in my English. not enough. That's all.
Do you say to the handicapped who lost an arm, "Where is your arm?"
I don't say. I hope you don't, too.

Would you please go back to the topic?
 

KirinMan

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Would you please go back to the topic?
Get back on topic?! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. What a joke,
You know what, you, and a few select others that are posting on this thread that believe Japan can or did no wrong should really take a moment to read that poll, read the links included in this thread, and the other thread about the comfort women and open your eyes.

I hope you all realize that all you are doing is beating around the bush with the same responses, and you and others are attempting to bury everyone with bulls**t, or ask inocuous questions, or change the subject and make comparisons to some other event in history, and the list goes on.
Have you read the poll recently?

Are you that thick to believe that these women didn't have something atrocious happen to them, do you actually think that it didnt't happen?
Answer me plain and simple here hanachan, if you can that is, if you can't I'll understand, it's because you're Japanese.

Do you think that all these women, making claims against the Japanese government and telling their stories about being comfort women are liars?​

Give me a straight answer, no bulls**t please. a simple , yes or no. .
You know what, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
 
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KirinMan

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The Gallery page, I found some "not comfort women's" photos.
"ツ坂?倪?塗窶「wツ人窶ーテッ" and "ツ航窶ケテウ窶ケテ射廱窶「テイナスd窶佚?" are not comfort women.
Is this site made with accurate knowledge? :eek:
described:
I'll be like you here....
Which pictures, provide the link.:eek:

1937-1942 The Japanese military sets up a network of comfort stations wherever it sends its' troops.
but not described:
Provide information that it didnt happen.

"ツ青ケツ静ュ窶佚・ツ焦ク窶堙娯?忍ナスm窶佚・ナ?ツスナ筑", "ツ身窶堙?ツ心窶堙?窶「テケ窶堋ョ窶佚・ヒ彗窶「ツ焦スq窶堙娯?佚・ニ探ツーニ池ニ湛"
...humiliating ad.
It's a reality Japan lost.
Trying to justify it here? I realize now that all of your responses on this topic have been from you own "feelings" and not based on anything else. Read through some more links and your eyes should open up some more.


"It is indisputable that these women were forced, deceived, coerced and abducted to provide sexual services to the Japanese military ... [Japan] violated customary norms of international law concerning war crimes, crimes against humanity, slavery and the trafficking in women and children ... Japan should take full responsibility now, and make suitable restitution to the victims and their families."
 

KirinMan

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Please teach me English, obeika. What do you mean by "son of a gun". And when was the phrase coined?
Pipokun I'm sorry I missed this; here is the explanation of the term;
"Son of a gun" has its origins with sailors. When a ship was in port for an extended period of time, wives and other women were permitted to live on board with the ship's crew. Occasionally, children would be born on board and a convenient place for the birth to happen was between guns on the gun deck. If the child's father was unknown, the child was entered in the ship's log as "son of a gun."
Taken from this link;
Forward Garden

However the term is used nowadays as an expression of surprise.


Probably you will also support them, right?
I support all the women regardless of race, or nationality, that were forced into sexual slavery. That includes any Japanese women as well.
 

Glenn

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Do you actually expect people here to think that you have a poor understanding of English when you use use words like "sophism"?
I don't think that's really fair. I know words like 窶ーツケ窶惑 and ツ静」ツ静ォ窶凪ぎナスC窶ーツケ, but that doesn't mean that I can always use Japanese as freely as I'd like. For instance, I still don't know how to tell people that the drain in my bathroom floor keeps backing up (tried it Saturday night and failed miserably).

Aside from that, sometimes you can look up a word in a dictionary and get an "equivalent" in the target language that's pretty esoteric, when it's a very commonly used word in the source language.
 

undrentide

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I agree with Glenn.

When discussing such a complicated issue, it is difficult and often frustrating (at least for me) to express everything in English which is not my native language. I often wish I could discuss it in my own language...
The prospect of this frustration with the possibility of misunderstanding discourages me from joining some of th discussion threads here.
(Sorry maybe I'm being off-topic-ish.)
 
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Originally Posted byMa Cherie
By the way, has anyone looked at this link? Someone might have posted it, but I don't know.

http://www.comfort-women.org/v2/index.html
:relief:
I read about this site.
I was not able to find the evidence that the Japanese government or the armed forces of Japan kidnapped a Korean girl.
Possibly because I may overlook it,
Please point out a point of the evidence.
 

pipokun

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Press Conference
Hirofumi Hayashi, Rumiko Nishino & Yoshiaki Yoshimi,
The Center for Research and Documentation on
Japan's War Responsibility (JWRC)
http://www.fccj.or.jp/node/2137
Tribunal testimony uncovered
These are official documents compiled by various nations, and the verdict also confirmed that women were coerced. Since Japan accepted the Tokyo war crimes trial verdict in signing the San Francisco Peace Treaty, it cannot ignore the significance of these documents," he said
http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200704160087.html
At a press conference, researchers will tell something about the issue.
But their logic sounds really strange to me.
They claim that they finally uncovered the secret docoments at the Tokyo Trials and that Japan must have responsibility for the issue again becasue Japan had aleady persecuted at the Tokyo Trials.
Needless to say, Japan accepted the judgments of the trials and of other Allied War Crimes Courts both within and outside Japan. And, of course, Japan had already paid reparation to the countries concerned. And the documents are not secret at all.
PRC and Korea were not invited to the Treaty of Peace with Japan, however Japan and the countries normalised the relations with bilateral treaties.

I support all the women regardless of race, or nationality, that were forced into sexual slavery. That includes any Japanese women as well.
I know you want to differentiate the issue of Japan and other military brothels by using the phrase, "were forced into". But be careful, obeika. Koreans may be upset if you say women at the military brothel in the Korean war were not forced...
 
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diceke

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Provide information that it didnt happen.
Again, someone's being illogical here. It's called a "probatio diabolica" (devil's proof, impossible proof):eek:
It's like saying that there is no evidence that Obeika didn't steal the money. Therefore, Obeika stole the money! :smile:
 

Susanoo

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Sadly the denial of war atrocities continues in Japan, Abe is taking the country back to its militaristic past, and has the gall to call this "beautiful."
 

junjunforever

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This seems rather simple to me. What would have happened if the same occured today?

1. Japanese gorverment sets up ads for prostitutes in South East Asia.
2. Many apply and are sent to the Philippines
3a. The prostitutes want to go back.
4a. Their wish is refused; They are continuously raped.
3a. The prostitutes want to work less.
4a. they are raped forcefully.

And i am sure in many cases, prostitutes were never paid or even killed to avoid payment.

Again, this is the same era where Koreans were massacred after the Kanto earthquake, saying koreans caused the earthquake. In a losing war, i am sure prosititutes were killed, raped and treated inhumanely as well.
 
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diceke

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Needless to say, Japan accepted the judgments of the trials and of other Allied War Crimes Courts both within and outside Japan. And, of course, Japan had already paid reparation to the countries concerned. And the documents are not secret at all.
PRC and Korea were not invited to the Treaty of Peace with Japan, however Japan and the countries normalised the relations with bilateral treaties.
I second it. Legally, Japan does not owe anything any more because the reparation has been paid on a government to government basis, and the claims have been already settled.

1. The Treaty of Peace (1951) concluded reparation agreements with the Allied Powers, and stated:
"except as otherwise presented in the present Treaty, the Allied Powers waive all reparation claims of the Allied Powers and their nationals arising out of any actions taken by Japan and its nationals in the course of the prosecution of the war."

2. The Korea-Japan basic treaty (1965):
"rights and interests of the people of both contracting countries and other claims of both countries are solved completely and finally"

3. The Joo vs Japan case in the US courts add strength to the legal position of the Japanese government based on the above treaties.

4. The Asian Women Fund:
An additional private-government combined fund set up to compensate the individuals, including the Dutch, Filipinas, etc.; apologies from PM's issued. It shows that Japan has done more than legally required. South Koreans rejected the payments apparently due to opposition by their government and NGOs.

Whatever the truth is, the treaties will not change. Scrap the treaties, it may open up the possibilities for the Japanese individuals to demand compensation from the US, and also from Korea. Hey, why not? That's a good idea!
 
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KirinMan

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4. The Asian Women Fund:
An additional private-government combined fund set up to compensate the individuals, including the Dutch, Filipinas, etc.; apologies from PM's issued. It shows that Japan has done more than legally required. South Koreans rejected the payments apparently due to opposition by their government and NGOs.
I hope you realize that, the Asian Women's Fund was rejected purely because it was a non-government organization, the Japanese Government did not want to "officially" admit any compliance.

There was no official government participation in the fund, it was purposely ambigious.

Now for you diceke same question that I asked hanachan which she hasn't answered yet. Simple question, simple answer......

Do you think that all these women, making claims against the Japanese government and telling their stories about being comfort women are liars?


Give me a straight answer a simple, yes or no.
 

Han Chan

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I hope you realize that, the Asian Women's Fund was rejected purely because it was a non-government organization, the Japanese Government did not want to "officially" admit any compliance.
There was no official government participation in the fund, it was purposely ambigious.
However, in 2001 former PM Koizumi did, in his letter of apology to Asian Women's Fund, acknowledge their work:

"Dear Madam,

On the occasion that the Asian Women's Fund, in cooperation with the Government and the people of Japan, offers atonement from the Japanese people to the former wartime comfort women, I wish to express my feelings as well.

The issue of comfort women, with an involvement of the Japanese military authorities at that time, was a grave affront to the honor and dignity of large numbers of women....."

Full text from the japanese Ministry of Forign Affairs homepage (Third item under Issue known as "Wartime Comfort Women"): (http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/postwar/index.html#issue):
 
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