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Comfort Women What do you think?

Which side do you believe regarding the "Comfort Women" issue?


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Ma Cherie

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Yeah, I was in agreement with you Sukotto, I made a thread about human trafficking it awhile ago, too. But the reason why I pointed out that human trafficking is bad in industrialized nations is because there are a lot of misconceptions that human trafficking only goes on in third world nations. There are a lot reasons as to why this is occurring, but that's another topic for another time. :relief:

Here's a website about human trafficking.
http://www.humantrafficking.org/
 
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diceke

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"US State Department data “estimated 600,000 to 820,000 men, women, and children [are] trafficked across international borders each year, approximately 80 percent are women and girls and up to 50 percent are minors.

An estimated 14,000 people are trafficked into the United States each year, although again because trafficking is illegal, accurate statistics are difficult.[7] According to the Massachusetts based Trafficking Victims Outreach and Services Networkin Massachusetts alone, there were 55 documented cases of human trafficking in 2005 and the first half of 2006 in Massachusetts.[8] In 2004, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) estimated that 600-800 persons are trafficked into Canada annually and that additional 1,500-2,200 persons are trafficked through Canada into the United States.[9]"ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking
 

Ma Cherie

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"US State Department data ツ“estimated 600,000 to 820,000 men, women, and children [are] trafficked across international borders each year, approximately 80 percent are women and girls and up to 50 percent are minors.

An estimated 14,000 people are trafficked into the United States each year, although again because trafficking is illegal, accurate statistics are difficult.[7] According to the Massachusetts based Trafficking Victims Outreach and Services Networkin Massachusetts alone, there were 55 documented cases of human trafficking in 2005 and the first half of 2006 in Massachusetts.[8] In 2004, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) estimated that 600-800 persons are trafficked into Canada annually and that additional 1,500-2,200 persons are trafficked through Canada into the United States.[9]"ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking

You copied and pasted, but what point are you trying to make?
 

Sukotto

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Refer back to Sukotto's post. He's trying to find out the stats in the US.

Hai, soo desu. Arigatoo gozaimashita, diceke.
Thanks

And I'm sure it is a low end estimate the state dept has got there.
 

Sukotto

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Should the comfort women be paid? after all these years?

I believe compensation should be paid to the people of
Nagasaki and Hiroshima and Japan in general for the inhuman atom bombings,
even after all these years.

But I think the only just compensation is to fully disarm and study war no more.
But that is another topic...

see an above comment of mine about continuing human trafficking in the future, today
 

KirinMan

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Should the comfort women be paid? after all these years?
How many years is too long? There are precedents for compensation being paid after a few decades to survivors. As time goes on and these unfortunate women die due to age there will no longer be a call for compensation.

Who will then carry on the legacy of getting Japan to ackowledge that this occured?
 

Sukotto

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Obeika,
I agree they should be compensated.
It is not like 1000 years or something.
People are still affected by this, specifically those directly affected.
 

KirinMan

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Obeika,
I agree they should be compensated.
It is not like 1000 years or something.
People are still affected by this, specifically those directly affected.
Im sorry if I sounded too harsh, that wasnt my intent.:relief:

I think it bothers many people that were not directly affected as well.
 

Sukotto

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Im sorry if I sounded too harsh, that wasnt my intent.:relief:
I think it bothers many people that were not directly affected as well.

Like treating 1/2 of the human race as if they were some how less than equal to the other half? Which actually devalues both 1/2s. Lowering ourselves in thinking others are lower.
 

origami

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I am still not qualified to paste URLs here, I quote good entries of good blogs authored by foreigners.

The following is March 3 entry of the blog "Occidentalism" by Matt (an Australian who lives in Sydney, he can writes/reads Hangul, Chinese, Japanese, too)


===========Quote

Comfort woman gives contradictionary testimony

Recently there have been hearings in the US house of representatives to condemn Japan for its involvement in the comfort women system. A Korean woman that claims to be a former comfort woman appeared before the house of representatives to give testimony. The woman, Lee Yong-soo, gave testimony that in the house of representatives that contradicts her earlier testimony.

Excerpt of testimony in the house of representatives -

In the autumn of 1944, when I was 16 years old, my friend, Kim Punsun, and I were collecting shellfish at the riverside when we noticed an elderly man and a Japanese man looking down at us form the hillside. The older man pointed at us with his finger, and the Japanese man started to walk towards us. The older man disappeared, and the Japanese beckoned to us to follow him. I was scared and ran away, not caring about what happened to my friend. A few days later, Punsun knocked on my window early in the morning, and whispered to me to follow her quietly. I tip-toed out of the house after her. I lift without telling my mother. I was wearing a dark skirt, a long cotton blouse buttoned up at the front and slippers on my feet. I followed my friend until we met the same man who had tried to approach us on the riverbank. He looked as if he was in his late thirties and he wore a sort of Peopleツ’s Army uniform with a combat cap. Altogether, there were five girls with him, including myself.

Testimony given previously -

Lee Yong-soo, 78, a South Korean who was interviewed during a recent trip to Tokyo, said she was 14 when Japanese soldiers took her from her home in 1944 to work as a sex slave in Taiwan.
ツ“The Japanese government must not run from its responsibilities,ツ” said Lee, who has long campaigned for Japanese compensation. ツ“I want them to apologize. To admit that they took me away, when I was a little girl, to be a sex slave. To admit that history.ツ”
ツ“I was so young. I did not understand what had happened to me,ツ” she said. ツ“My cries then still ring in my years. Even now, I can’t sleep.ツ”

Obviously these testimonies contradict each other, and in normal circumstances would call into doubt the validity of the claim of being forced to be a sex slave. However, in the comfort woman controversy, anyone that even dares to doubt the testimony of a self described former comfort woman is an evil beast that supports the sexual slavery of women. Truly examining the testimonies the comfort woman has reached level of an untouchable taboo.

Lee Yong-soo is not the only person claiming to be a former comfort woman to give contradictory testimony. There are many. From what I have read from comfort woman supporters, the contradictory testimonies can be accounted for by -

*The interviewers of the comfort women are injecting their own words into the testimony
*The women suffer from a ツ“fragmentationツ” of memory, and thus unable to give a consistent chronological account of their experiences

Which testimony are we supposed to believe? Since questioning the factual validity of womens testimonies is taboo, we are expected to believe every single testimony, even those that contradict each other. I think there is some truth to some of the testimony, but I do not think that testimony should be the only way of determining what happened. Testimony should be cross referenced with existing documents to determine what really happened.

=========Unquote


Friends, I do recommend you to get an access directly to the blog "Occidentalism" yourself.


Another entry of "Occcidentalism" March 6 by Matt, an Australian blogger.

===========Quote

More contradictory comfort woman testimony

Previously I introduced the contradictory testimony of Lee Yong-Soo, who appeared before a Congressional committee considering House Resolution 121, a resolution demanding that Japan unconditionally apologise to all of the 200,000 women it is claimed were kidnapped by the Japanese army or their agents.

Apparently Lee Yong-Soo has given other, different testimonies as well.

Here is some testimony by Lee Yong-Soo from an organisation called Unerasable Memory: Making reality a formal apology and compensation by the Japanese government for the female comfort women victims of the Japanese army! , that held a national meeting in Japan in 2004, there is another, different testimony from Lee Yong-Soo. Here are the relevant quotes -

1928窶扼ナ?テ伉坂?倪?堙娯?佚・テァツキ(ニ弾ニ丹)ツ青カ窶堙懌?堙ェツ。1944窶扼ツ、16ツ催寂?堙固スナセ窶堙可「 ナ坦窶「ナセ窶堙昶?堋ス窶堋「窶堙遺?「ナセ窶堙ー窶吮?ヲ窶堋ス窶冕ツ」窶堙架廣ツ行窶堋ウ窶堙ェツ、窶佚、ヒ徘窶堙鳴。
窶堋サ窶堙固津」ツ、ヒ廣窶堙ェ窶堙?行窶堋ゥ窶堙ェ窶堋スツ静ヲ窶堙娯?佚、ヒ徘窶堙?、窶愿コ窶怒ナ坦ツ「ヒ?藩??窶「wツ」 窶堙??堋オ窶堙??堙個青カナ?ヒ??堙ー3窶扼ナ?テ披?ケツュツ青ァ窶堋ウ窶堙ェ窶堋スツ。
In 1928 I was born in Daegu, Korea. In 1944, at 16 years old I was forcibly taken away by a man wearing a something like a military uniform to Taiwan.
After that, in Taiwan, the place I was sent I was forced to work for 3 years as a comfort woman for the Japanese army.

The war ended in 1945. How could she work for 3 years? Furthermore, during the war virtually all men wore a military style uniform.

Here is another testimony from the site of the Japanese Communist Party. The Japanese Communist Party supports the comfort women.

ナ?テ伉坂?倪?堙娯?披?コ窶覇ナクツェ窶堋ウ窶堙アツ(窶啖窶售ツ)窶堙債、ツ十ナスlツ催寂?堙?銃ナ停?「窶堙ー窶堙や?堋ォ窶「t窶堋ッ 窶堙ァ窶堙ェ窶堙?廣窶堙ェ窶堙??堋ア窶堙ァ窶堙ェ窶堋ス窶堋ア窶堙?、窶ケ窶倪?堙樞?堙??ーツ」窶堙ァ窶堙ェツ、窶彭窶ケC窶堙俄?堙ヲ窶堙ゥ ツ坂?ー窶禿「窶堙ーナステウ窶堋ッ窶堙?ス竄ャ窶堙俄?堋ゥ窶堋ッ窶堋ス窶堋ア窶堙??堙遺?堙??堙ーヒ彙窶堋オツ、ツ「ナス窶樞?堙坂?氾ーナスj窶堙 ツ青カ窶堋ォツ湘伉人窶堙??堋オ窶堙?債。ツ、ツ青カ窶堋ォ窶堙??堋「窶堙ゥツ。
74 year old Korean, Lee Yong-Soo talked about how she was taken at gun point when she was 14 years old, and when she resisted, she was beaten and tortured through electrocution to near death. Lee Yong-Soo told us ツ“I am a living as a living witness to historyツ”.

I can now count four different stories, all from the same person. If she is a living witness to history, then which story are we supposed to believe? What does Mike Honda, the sponsor of Congressional House Resolution 121 condemning the current Japanese government for the comfort women controversy, think of this? I do not think he cares, since all we have seen at the Congressional hearings has been one sided arguments and verbal testimony, without any sincere historical investigation.

HT to James at JapanProbe, and Tonchamon.

==========Unquote
 

KirinMan

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Like treating 1/2 of the human race as if they were some how less than equal to the other half? Which actually devalues both 1/2s. Lowering ourselves in thinking others are lower.
It's a good point, I doubt however that the two will ever been seen or treated truly as equal's until both are able to physically function the same. Which of course is an absurdity.

Educating people about the past is one of the first steps in my opinion to understanding. Enlightening children, in particular, that damn near each and every country on the planet has atrocities in their past that brought them to where they are today, and as you know that includes Japan as well, is one of the first steps in ensuring it doesn't happen again.
 

Sukotto

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It's a good point, I doubt however that the two will ever been seen or treated truly as equal's until both are able to physically function the same. Which of course is an absurdity.

Well, equal as in there is not an "other" that is worth less.

As for physical abilities, there are women and men who are stronger
or faster than I, or slower and can lift less weight, but that does not mean
those people are less or better than I.
 

KirinMan

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As for physical abilities,
Sukotto I think you missed what I wrote, I wasn't talking about abilities but "bodily functions":smile:.
 

Mars Man

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Well, I read over the posts, and still don't have a firm stance myself. I tend to agree with the first statement in the poll, yet could not vote in that it's in the absolute; and I just don't reason that I can say I have the information/data to agree in the absolute. The other statements presented the same dilemma, and so I just don't feel I can vote.

It is a very serious concern, I would most certainly agree. To what degree the Japanese government of today is to be held responsible, I cannot firmly determine--my general point of view is that today's government is most largely different from the Imperial government of that day. I have come across reports that do tell of apologies having been made, and Abe's talking to Bush about it and such, but I do not know the content nor spirit of that apology.

It has been highlighted on in various nuances in above posts, I think, that we humans are pretty much the same ole humans as humans have pretty much always been in the past what, 2 million years or so?...as far as can best be posited/determined. It's sad. I wonder how it'll be some 2 million years from now.

Anyway, as also brought out above, we should never forget, and should strive to relive ourselves of such--now I want to say inhumanity, but I think that word is strange--disposition. MM
 

pipokun

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...
To what degree the Japanese government of today is to be held responsible,
What resposibility the Japanese govenment is to held? Please clarify it.
If you think the military brothel must be a war crime like the Japanese or Asian adovocates claim, please stand up for the Japanese/Asian women who died in the Korean war, the Vietnam war or other wars.

Considering your age, you know much more about the Vietnam war, right?
 

KirinMan

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Well, I read over the posts, and still don't have a firm stance myself. I tend to agree with the first statement in the poll, yet could not vote in that it's in the absolute; and I just don't reason that I can say I have the information/data to agree in the absolute. The other statements presented the same dilemma, and so I just don't feel I can vote.
Fair reply, I wrote the poll with the hope that people here would get off the fence and choose one side or the other. I wanted to word the third option differently but due to the limitations in the number of characters I could not actually write what I had intended as a poll option.
I also sent a couple of PM's to Uncle Frank asking him to put a 7th option into the poll to define the 6th option a little better, he was unable to assist me and I forwarded the PM's I sent to Uncle Frank to Dutch Baka on April 5th but have not heard any response nor had the poll changed as of yet.

What resposibility the Japanese govenment is to held? Please clarify it.
I think this is a fair question. I will admit that I have thought long and hard about this since I have gotten involved on this issue.

I still feel that the current Japanese Administration "owes" these women and the rest of the world, at the minimum an honest acknowledgement that this issue happened and it isnt just a figment of everyones but the Japanese peoples imagination. Also the current Administration and all that follow afterwards need to include this and other issues from WWII in the ES/JHS/HS history lessons as a sad but important part of Japan. Particularly in its relationships with other countries in Asia. The government has to quit trying to rewrite history.

If you think the military brothel must be a war crime like the Japanese or Asian adovocates claim, please stand up for the Japanese/Asian women who died in the Korean war, the Vietnam war or other wars.
Pipokun why do you and other Japanese continually insist on equating and justifying the actions of one against another? I am continually baffled by this line of thinking.

By using this logic you realize I hope that you are ackowleding that the events and issues in question are a matter of fact. Who knows maybe he does support them. Why however limit it to the Japanese women only, when there is a world full of women faced with similar issues today. You use one point in history to justify another. Yet they are neither equal nor the same. Each should be discussed on their own merits.

Could you at least try to talk about this topic ONLY without bringing up different wars or different eras?
 
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diceke

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Pipokun why do you and other Japanese continually insist on equating and justifying the actions of one against another? I am continually baffled by this line of thinking.
By using this logic you realize I hope that you are ackowleding that the events and issues in question are a matter of fact. If you were in a court of law this argument would not be recognized other than an admitance of guilt. You use one point in history to justify another. Yet they are neither equal nor the same. Each should be discussed on their own merits.
I think he and others are just pointing out to the inconsistency in your logic. It's bad when it's done by Japan, but you simply choose to turn a blind eye, or claim it to be just when it's the US. A typical American logic.:eek:
 

KirinMan

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I think he and others are just pointing out to the inconsistency in your logic. It's bad when it's done by Japan, but you simply choose to turn a blind eye, or claim it to be just when it's the US. A typical American logic.:eek:
Learn to read a little closer........if you had there would be no reason to make comments like this.

Each and every issue is unique, you can not use events that happened hundreds of years ago to compare with this issue, or even more recent events.

That my dear boy is illogical.

And and in a reply to this quote from the post below me here;

Your profile says you are an educator, but I wonder what you teach
Not what but who, :smile:
 
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diceke

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Learn to read a little closer........if you had there would be no reason to make comments like this.
Each and every issue is unique, you can not use events that happened hundreds of years ago to compare with this issue, or even more recent events.
That my dear boy is illogical.
And and in a reply to this quote from the post below me here;
Not what but who, :smile:
Each issue is different, so that's why we compare and contrast.
 

KirinMan

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Each issue is different, so that's why we compare and contrast.
However in this case it isn't "compare and contrast" but obfuscate and confuse.

I will give you credit for finally making a post that is not intended to inflame or anger someone. Keep it up.
 

KirinMan

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Then don't bring up the compensation issue of American internment camps to confuse the issue. :)
Did you actually read what I wrote, here it is to refresh your memory

I usually hate using comparisons because in this case the situations are very different but in this case a precedent was made when the US Government paid reparations to Japanese families in compensation for their internment during WWII in the US. President Regan apologized and the government paid $1.2 billion dollars and this was in 1988.
I make no other comparisons about women being used in different conflicts, only to make a point about precedents. I didn't nor have used other conflicts to justify the actions of the Imperial Japanese Army during WWII, which to my chagrin others here are doing.

You know darn near every post you make here on this forum is antagonistic by nature.
 
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