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Banned from Japan

Hope&Faith

Kouhai
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Hello guys,

I joined this forum coz i have a delicate question to ask you, about immigration rules in japan (changing every year) and about a personal sad experience, after spending 11 years my life in Tokyo. And with a hope to get some help. Thanks in advance.

I premise that I'll not tell much details about myself and my origins, obviously, for privacy matters.

So, that's my story:
Some years ago, I was condemned to 3 years of forced labour, but commuted to a 5-years suspended sentence (and then kicked out from Japan, despite my great behaviour and career in those past 11 years). I just say, that it was a tragical episode, nothing drug related, not a violent act.... just a tragedy that can happen to anyone... let's call it bad luck ,negative karma, whatsoever... That's why I "pardoned" with a suspended sentence (sadly in Japan, is nearly impossible being acquitted... the suspended sentence is the only way to avoid jail...sad but true).
I had 2 weeks time to leave Japan spontaneously or after 14 days, I would become officially an overstayer and detained in Shinagawa illegal immigrants detention center and then kicked-in an airplane back to home.
Of course, being stressed at the point of taking meds to calm down my mind, after 12 days, I left by myself.

The scar was is healed, I was doing fine, until the day I had the horrible news, that I'm banned from Japan (my second home, as I spent there 40% of my life) for the rest of my days!!! While I thought it was only a 5-years ban, which would expire soon...
The reason is that even if I got the "pardon" trough the suspended sentence, any sentence above 12 months, without even spending one single day in jail, imply a permanent ban from the Country...

The good point, my embassy said, that leaving Japan before those 14 days, no Country in the world will know about my record, and it will be finite only in Japan.
So they suggested me, that at the moment of renewal of my passport, I could state without fear that I'm clean, and travel happily anywhere except Japan...
So I did. No problems at all: new passport and clean.
Well, I thought I would forget my second homeland, soon or later, but that's stronger than me. Even if I could just get a 15-days tourist visa (like recently for Brunei, Thailand and Indonesia), I would the happiest man in the world. Visiting twice a year, all my old Japanese and gaikokujin fellas. Walking around the Shinjuku, Akihabara and Shibuya streets, "smelling the atmosphere" of the old good days, where I have grown my young adulthood...
I often have nightmare that i have decided to head to narita and being sent back... Sometimes I cry, coz I miss my home and friends, and that feeling of being impotent against some excessively strict laws, makes me very depressed...

Ok, that's my experience and this is what I feel about it.

Now, my question is (and PLEASE!!! if someone knows please tell me if there is a way):
I have a dual citizenship. Next year I'll have to renew it as well and based on my first passport, it will be clean, as well.
I was thinking if i could Japan with the other passport or it would be useless, because the fingerprints and facial check at Narita immigration counter...
Someone told me that i should be fine, because the database of fingerprints and and facial recognition are connected only to the nationality.
In short:
1- different passport, no blacklist. Moreover, it's clean and they don't know I have a dual citizenship. They never knew... Also my last visit with the other passport was back in 2002, before I settled there "permanently".
2- Some other people are skeptical, saying that the fingerprints and my face would show up, anyway from their blacklist, confusing the officer and in the worst case been kicked-out from Japan, blamed for trying to deceive them, and even tell my Country's autorities about my past, fouling my passports...
3- Others, just told me to give a try, and f*ck the consequences, if Japan is that important me...

Guys... I'm lost... Don't know what to do... I miss desperately my second home... I'm not expecting to live there anymore (I already have my business, in my "passport countries" plus in Bangkok).
Should I take the risk and try with the second passport? Or you think that the game is not worth the candle?
Do you have any other info to give me? Do you know some lawyer who could solve this situation in some way? I'm talking about LEGAL stuff... Not underground s**t, please.

There is no day I can't stop thinking about, for example, those funny moments with my ex-gf in Odaiba, sitting at the beach, the go to Sega amusement park, going back by the ferry under the illuminated bridge and go to the isakaya close to our home for some snacks and beers... And this is only ONE memory... I have thousands...

50% of my soul is not with me, right now... it remained there, waiting for me, to recompose myself once again.

Thank you in advance, fellas, even for a simply reply.

Have a nice day!
 

Mike Cash

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What were you convicted of?
 

Hope&Faith

Kouhai
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First at all, THANK YOU for your reply!!!

No drugs...
No violent act...
Let's say, an incident (my fault) with serious consequences...
Sorry I'm concerned to be more specific. (Or it's safe talking here?)

But the immigration was clear... Doesn't matter what kind of crime-felony was... is the sentence that counts: more than 12 months = permanent ban.

P.s. at the moment... hopefully in the future things will change, who knows...
 

Mike Cash

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You and Japan are done. Get on with life.
 

Hope&Faith

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Oh my...
May I ask you why?
They can recognize me, with the second citizenship?

Also... we all make mistakes... I was even "forgiven" with the 5-years probation. we all should get, at least, a second chance...
 

cocoichi

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First at all, THANK YOU for your reply!!!

No drugs...
No violent act...
Let's say, an incident (my fault) with serious consequences...
Sorry I'm concerned to be more specific. (Or it's safe talking here?)

But the immigration was clear... Doesn't matter what kind of crime-felony was... is the sentence that counts: more than 12 months = permanent ban.

P.s. at the moment... hopefully in the future things will change, who knows...
It is not a crime or illegal to say what you are convicted for, so yes it is safe. It will not make your relationship with the Japanese government worse, but it might be relevant for people that are willing to help you. How can people for example point you toward the right lawyer if they don't know your specific situation?

Also, this severe punishment with no drugs or violence involved, and you all super hesitant to say it, makes me kind of think young children were involved in horrible ways. You can prevent that kind of assumption by being more open about it. In addition, people have the right to know whom they are helping.
 

Hope&Faith

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Children? Please... are you serious?????

Ok, I'll speak.
I was coming back home from a Sayonara party...
Very drunk, 5am...
Because my silly behavior (falling down randomly while walking and looking like under drugs... while the only drug was a simply a tons of BEERS!!!), on my way back home, a police cab stopped me (4 policemen), checking on me if i had any drugs. Nothing found... Only a heavy breath of beer... But, for whatever reason they started to shove me, over and over, like I was a toy and laughing at me (saying repeatedly "baka gaijin").
I know JP law, and even if i was drunk, I was lucid enough to tell them that what they were doing was against the laws!
They laughed again by saying me "do you think you have any power over us, you baka gaijin?"
Then i replied: "ok! you offend me and touch me again, i'll punch you straight in the face!"...
Sadly it happened and I broke one's policemen nose...
YES, MY MISTAKE...
And immediately arrested...
Skipping 3 months of detention and various "introductory" trials...
My lawyer was so good that found a CCTV tape, where everything was recorded.
Those 4 fu*kers where suspended for lying at the trial, and I got the pardon by getting the 5-years probation... BECAUSE if i wanted to be acquitted (ok,excuse), according to the scene, i should call other policemen... WHAT??? ok, it was obviosly an excuse to deny me the absolution (which is barely the 0,2% in Japan).

Ok, that's my story...
 

Mike Cash

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You weren't "pardoned". You were convicted of a violent crime. You are a convicted criminal.

They didn't ban your passport; they banned you.

Were you even here legally then?

 

Hope&Faith

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you would say it was a violent act... they provoked me when i was drunk. just a simple punch wich, unfortunately hit in the right place...
the only consolation is that they got "suspended"... but why i had to leave?
i got a 5-years probation, which means: you'll behave for the next 5 years and the "crime" will be be extinguished.
No problem with me... I have been always a good guy, maybe not perfect, but confident enough to stay 5 years under probration.

But, immigration as soon as have the chance, they kick you out (not connected directly with justice. For the judge I could remain in Japan). Immigration really is a kind of purge. like they see us a plague...
 

Hope&Faith

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You weren't "pardoned". You were convicted of a violent crime. You are a convicted criminal.

They didn't ban your passport; they banned you.

Were you even here legally then?
I was sarcastic about being "pardoned". but in Japan no one get absolution (except in very special cases... 2 out of 1000). I did my mistaked but I was provoked by police. They should protect us, not bullying us. Infact those 4 guys, lost their job (their conduct wasn't tollerated), however... A drunk guy, who is racially mocked and bullied by police, is a criminal?
Maybe yes, by doing the mistake of let my instincts win over rationality... but 3 years are absurd. Even my lawyer thought it would end with a 6 months convition commuted to a 3-years probation... but seems that the judge was heavily irritated to "suspend" 4 of his policemen just for a gaijin...
that's sad. gaijin we will be always a second-rate citizens in Japan, but I'll never stop loving that land....

p.s. i was under working visa. 6 years already. the next year i would be granted a permanent visa...
 

Hope&Faith

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anyway...
seems here I'm getting judged instead of getting some advice...
do you really think that JP system is that perfect?
do you think that what they did to me was legitimated?
:(
 

cocoichi

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anyway...
seems here I'm getting judged instead of getting some advice...
do you really think that JP system is that perfect?
do you think that what they did to me was legitimated?
:(
I wasn't judging you. I was just suspicious because you were looking for help, while sharing only a tiny bit of information regarding your conviction.

While I think a punishment is fair (you said no violence, yet you punched a police officer), I do think there's something to say about the police crossing the line, and the government getting rid of you rather quickly. Don't know where you are from or how well you speak the language, but it might be an interesting story to a journalist at a well known Japanese newspaper or well read website. Maybe there's someone that reports about police brutality or racist judges in Japan, and maybe it will catch some attention. I think that's your best shot.
 

Hope&Faith

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I wasn't judging you. I was just suspicious because you were looking for help, while sharing only a tiny bit of information regarding your conviction.

While I think a punishment is fair (you said no violence, yet you punched a police officer), I do think there's something to say about the police crossing the line, and the government getting rid of you rather quickly. Don't know where you are from or how well you speak the language, but it might be an interesting story to a journalist at a well known Japanese newspaper or well read website. Maybe there's someone that reports about police brutality or racist judges in Japan, and maybe it will catch some attention. I think that's your best shot.
Thank you. You are right, but i'm **** scared to make it even worse... i'm just a regular citizen, not a powerful politician or yakuza. lol
Anyway, I wouldn't call it VIOLENCE, but self-respect... anyway i don't expect to be understood...
At the moment I'll say I'm from European Union and both passport are EU (more details later, if things will get "hot" ). And I speak japanese at business level. I graduated in Japan and my my position at work, would be something betweet kakakricho and kacho.

Do you really think, if I'll speak something will change? My opinion is that at the end of the story, I'll get my 2 passports faulted... I don't believe in the SYSTEM anymore...


p.s. may i ask you, why you thought about children in the first place? do you think a pedophile would ever, sign-up in this site? he should be lucky he is this free and not convicted, and then killed by the inmates... lol
 

Hope&Faith

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ADDITION = nobody still answered my specific question...
Is it possible to come back with the 2nd citizenship?
That was my main concern...
Coz I don't believe anymore in justice and security... it's all fake bulls**t to make us feel safe (I'm talking WORLDWIDE).
 

Hope&Faith

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last hint= we lost against Germany, penalty kicks.
stop
 
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cocoichi

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p.s. may i ask you, why you thought about children in the first place? do you think a pedophile would ever, sign-up in this site? he should be lucky he is this free and not convicted, and then killed by the inmates... lol
Your punishment was quite severe, but at the same time it was not drug or violence related. So I thought, "what else could be so bad that he does not want to tell anyone". In addition, you said "accident", so I thought you might have visited a creepy website, of downloaded some files by accident.

And yes, I do think they would ask that kind of question online, since it is mostly anonymous.
Anyway, you've explained yourself, so there's no reason to assume those things anymore.

Your question: Can you come back on your second passport? I don't think so, because the customs officer will scan your fingerprints upon arrival. It is likely to be connected to a system with banned tourists and former residents. In that case it doesn't matter how many passports you have.

I would advice you to talk to the pizza embassy in Japan, to see if they can help you out in any way, if you have not done so already. But then I would seriously advice you to atone instead of "fighting injustice". I think you'll get a lot further by profoundly apologizing and asking for a clean sheet, than by accusing the system. I would imagine that you know this aspect of the Japanese culture after living there for so long.
 

Hope&Faith

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Why on earth would that make any difference?
because my lawyer said that fingerprints and facial recordinds are separate by nationality?
but... before trying to attempt doing so, I wanted a friendly, judge-free advice...
that's all... but seems it's our karma to being judged for everyone, even without knowing you, what a kind person you are....

JUDGING IS EASY
UNDERSTAND IS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE
that's today's human being's way to consider other people.

Anyway that's not my problem. I'm looking for advices, like cocoichi at least, is trying to give me a shot! AND I THANK HIM SO MUCH!
 

Mike Cash

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I haven't "judged" you. What I do or do not think about your situation as a matter of personal opinion is entirely irrelevant.

You have been convicted of a violent crime. You are banned from entering Japan.

Now you come here asking what your chances of getting caught are if you commit another crime by entering Japan fraudulently.

What do you want from us? For us to tell you that's a good idea?

If I were to say something judgmental about you it would include words like; whiny, self-centered, delusional, self-pitying, irresponsible... things like that. But I have refrained from making judgmental statements in favor of simply recapitulating what you have told us, but with all the elusive, deceptive, self-excusing, responsibility-dodging verbiage removed in the hopes of making things more clear for you.

You are banned. Japan considers you persona non grata. Your presence is neither desired nor required. You burned your bridges when you took a drunken punch at a cop and broke his nose. If you do decide to petition to have the ban removed (I've never heard of it happening), then for God's sake man up and admit what you did without all the whiny self-exculpatory boo-hoo-the-world-hates-me irresponsible nonsense you've been spouting to us.
 

Hope&Faith

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I would advice you to talk to the pizza embassy in Japan, to see if they can help you out in any way,
Nope. They already told to stay away japan. They won't be my side. Spaghetti morons...

I think you'll get a lot further by profoundly apologizing and asking for a clean sheet.
If you tell me how, I'll would be grateful to you, for the rest of my fife!
 

Hope&Faith

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I haven't "judged" you. What I do or do not think about your situation as a matter of personal opinion is entirely irrelevant.

You have been convicted of a violent crime. You are banned from entering Japan.

Now you come here asking what your chances of getting caught are if you commit another crime by entering Japan fraudulently.

What do you want from us? For us to tell you that's a good idea?

If I were to say something judgmental about you it would include words like; whiny, self-centered, delusional, self-pitying, irresponsible... things like that. But I have refrained from making judgmental statements in favor of simply recapitulating what you have told us, but with all the elusive, deceptive, self-excusing, responsibility-dodging verbiage removed in the hopes of making things more clear for you.

You are banned. Japan considers you persona non grata. Your presence is neither desired nor required. You burned your bridges when you took a drunken punch at a cop and broke his nose. If you do decide to petition to have the ban removed (I've never heard of it happening), then for God's sake man up and admit what you did without all the whiny self-exculpatory boo-hoo-the-world-hates-me irresponsible nonsense you've been spouting to us.
Thank you so much for your time (really! ain't sarcastic). I wasn't asking how to come back in japan fraudulently... just if there was another way, a hole in the system, by being "blessed" of dual citizenship. that's all. nothing more.

you can think about me whatever you like to. I'm used to it, to be judged.
Thank you, anyway, from the bottom of my heart, to spend some time about my case.

Nowadays time is more precious than money!

Grazie Mike! :)
 

Hope&Faith

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I'm just wondering why, except cocoichi, nobody is questioning about Japanese police's behavior...
 

cocoichi

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If you tell me how, I'll would be grateful to you, for the rest of my fife!
I'm afraid I really don't know how.

At least I would write a very deep letter of regret (apologizing for hitting the cop, to have been a burden to the Japanese judicial system and society, even for taking someone's time to read this letter and making him decide whether or not to clean your sheet). Then I would add something about what you have done to become a better person, how the situation has helped you to see things clear, whatever, and what you can/could do in Japan that Japan would benefit from.

The chance of success is pretty small, I know. Make one more mistake and it's basically that guy's responsibility, because he let you back in.
Your presence is neither desired nor required
is very true for you unfortunately.. (for most people, including me)

But to whom should you give that letter? That's the hard part.. I really have no idea :(
 

Mike Cash

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I'm just wondering why, except cocoichi, nobody is questioning about Japanese police's behavior...
It is irrelevant to the question at hand and we have only your side of the story....and by your own admission you were astoundingly drunk at the time.
 
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