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Are these translations correct? (light novel)

Lamy

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Hi everyone! I'm translating a light novel (Trinity Blood) and I'm at a part, where the notes of the dead author are written about the further story which he couldn’t write anymore, so it’s a bit confused. I have some sentences, where I'm not satisfied with the translating or I don't know which one of my translation tries should be correct. (I can only read hiragana and katakana and I'm using google translator and dictionaries.)
I would be happy abut any help.

Here are the sentences:

1) それぞれに恨みのあるこれを倒す。
My try: At the end of the fierce battle, they kill him with grudge. (?).


2)トレスとレオソが二人がかりになっても当然と思ってもらえるような、騎士団の幹部らしい劇的な末路が必要。
My try: Tres and Leon are of course for two(?), but at the moment they like each other(?), I think for the executives of the Knights a dramatic end seems to be required.


3) ヘルガを自分の„影”に吸い込んでしまう。
He wants / tries to suck / sucks Helga into his own “shadows”.


4) (I think that this translation should be ok, but if somebody could confirm that, would be great.)
だが実際は、いよいよというところでケンプファーがカインの存在を匂わせる発言をしたため、アベルが思わず見せた隙をついて逃げられている。
However, the fact is that in the end Kämpfer makes at a certain moment a hint which suggests the presence of Cain. Abel gives him involuntarily a chance to run away.


5) ケンプファーを倒したアベルだけが、彼の生死について半信半疑の状態。状況的に見れば、 ケンプファーの死は疑えないもの。
But Abel defeated Kämpfer only, concerning his life or death, he is unsure / it’s unsure if he is alive. If you look at the situation, the death of Kämpfer is not supposed / cannot be doubted.


This last one confuses me the most. From the storyline it should be at the time for the reader clear, that Kämpfer is alive because he appears in the next stories, which were written and published before this scene. (Yes, the author published the story not in chronological order.)
 

Toritoribe

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1)
Context?

2)
It's レオ, not レオソ (= Leoso).

−がかり
1 〔それだけの人数・日数を要すること〕
10人がかりでその像を運んだ
It took ten people to carry the statue.

3日がかりで年賀状を書いた
I devoted three days to writing New Year's cards.
がかりの英語・英訳 - goo辞書 英和和英

とうぜん【当然】
あんなことを言ったら嫌われて当然だ
He deserves to be disliked for having said such a thing.

彼女が子供たちの成功に鼻高々なのも当然のことだった
She was justly proud of her children's success.

それを聞いて彼が怒るのも当然だ
It's only natural that he'd get angry [for him to get angry] hearing that.
当然の英語・英訳 - goo辞書 英和和英

The subject of 思ってもらえる is the readers.
Your translation "seems to be required" is for 必要らしい. It's completely different from 幹部らしい
−らしい
3 〔…にふさわしい〕becoming ((to)); worthy ((of))
紳士らしい行い
gentlemanly conduct

淑女らしい態度で
in a ladylike manner

男らしく決断したらどうだ
Why not make up your mind like a man?

彼女らしいやり方だ
That's 「just like [characteristic of] her.

あの人らしい[らしからぬ]振る舞いだった
His behavior was in [out of] character.

この町には劇場らしい劇場はない
There is no theater 「worthy of the name [to speak of/worth mentioning] in this town.

先生らしくない先生だ
He isn't a typical teacher./He's not like a teacher at all.

春らしい穏やかな一日だった
It was a typically mild spring day.
らしいの英語・英訳 - goo辞書 英和和英

3)
Haven't you learned ~てしまう?


4)
ため indicates the reason/cause.
The main verb is 逃げられている, not (隙を)見せた.

5)
ケンプファーを倒した modifies アベル.
You are confusing ケンプファーを倒したアベルだけが and ケンプファーだけを倒したアベル.
The writer is talking about the situation at the time in the story from the viewpoint of the characters. They don't know their future, of course.
 

Lamy

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Hallo,
Fist of all thank your very much for taking time for an answer (and sorry for delay with my answer, I was lying sick the last days)

1) context is, only 1 sentence before regarding this happening:
この要塞を自爆させるため、メインシステムを確保しようとするトレスとレオンは、メルキオールとでくわし、壮絶な戦いの末、それぞれに恨みのあるこれを倒す。

In order to let self-destruct the fortress, Tres and Leon are trying to secure the main system, they meet accidentally Melchior. At the end of the fierce battle, they kill him with grudge. (?).

What should mean or suggest „with grudge“, if the translation is ok?


2) It’s very nice to write grammar explanations, but I don’t understand anything from it. As I wrote it before, I can only read kanas and my grammar is only –masu, - masen, mashita, masendeshita.
Could you maybe just simple write how would you translate it?


3) Nope, haven’t. (only one semester of Japanese lesson). …wait… google…found something...: Does it mean, I should translate?:
He sucked Helga into his own “shadows”.


4) Ok, got it. Means, that a translation like this would be better
However the fact is that Kämpfer escapes, because he makes at a certain moment a hint which suggests the presence of Cain and that makes Abel give him involuntarily a chance. (for the escaping)


5) That thing with the modifying I don’t really understand. Sorry
That would makes sense if it’s the viewpoint of the characters, but if Abel let him escape, how can he be sure, that Kämpfer is dead? I’m still confused.


And sorry, that I can’t really understand the grammar explanation, but my Japanese is really poor, and I use web-translations dictionaries, comparisons with Chinese translation (can’t even read a word Chinese) and so on and make a very hard job to understand my favourite novel, so please have patience with me.
 

Mike Cash

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In all seriousness, it would be a far more efficient use of your time to learn at least elementary Japanese grammar first.
 

Lamy

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In all seriousness, would it be a far more kind use of your time to learn at least elementary politeness first?

If I had already learned more japanese till now I wouldn't had to ask here. And I absolutely will not wait with reading (=translating) my favourite book till I learned japanese for years, since I can understand as far as about 90-95% of the novel right now even without your kind advice to learn more grammar.
 

Mike Cash

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And into the ignore list you go....
 

Toritoribe

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I can understand as far as about 90-95% of the novel right now even without your kind advice to learn more grammar.
Oh, yeah? It's just "you think you understand", and not "you understand it correctly", isn't it?
cf.
Translating a short clip... | Japan Forum

"A result of google traslate makes sense" doesn't always mean "the translation is correct", as nekojita-san explained it well.
Need a word or phrase translated? | Page 439 | Japan Forum

What you are saying is just like "I can read alphabet. I haven't learned English grammar such like the perfect tense, relative pronoun or subjunctive mood at all. I'm reading an English book now. What does this English sentence mean?" It's quite reasonable to estimate that we would have to translate almost the whole book for them after all, don't you think so?

what list?
 

mdchachi

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And I absolutely will not wait with reading (=translating) my favourite book till I learned japanese for years
How did this become your favourite book if you can't even read it?? Do you already have a translation of it?
 

lanthas

 
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I'm currently part of a fan translation project for a Japanese visual novel. When I joined the group, I was impressed to find that one person had already translated the bulk of the script; we're talking tens of thousands of lines of dialogue and narration. Nice, this would only take a few more months to complete!

Or so I thought. When I went to take a look at his work, it turned out that his translations were almost consistently wrong. Sure, each Japanese word in the original was represented by a corresponding English one in the translation, but there was almost always one mistake that ruined the entire sentence. Incorrect subject. Reversed direction of action. Misinterpreted word. Even wrongly recognized word boundaries.

When I pointed these mistakes out to him, he was so shocked that he decided to completely give up on translating. He'd been working on this for the past two years - and now it turned out that the result was essentially unusable... I'm currently "checking" it together with some other people, by which I mean "go back to the beginning and rewrite most lines from scratch". Imagine how much work we could've saved if he had only spent some more time studying beforehand.

I hope this is a cautionary tale to you. Translating from a foreign language that's as different from your own as Japanese is not something you can do on a whim.
 
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Lamy

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Ok people, my main problem is that I was shocked how arrogant and rude I have been treated here.
I'm not stupid, I'm absolutely clear about it that my translations are probably not perfect, but as long as I can understand something from it I will keep on reading. (better then nothing).

And as I told before, if I were as far that I have learned more grammar till now I wouldn't ask. But I have started japanese only 1 semester before. But it seems that I have chosen the wrong forum for my questions. Even people with ask for stupid Kanji tattoos get more nice answers than me.


@mdchachi
It became my favorite book, because it's a series of 12 novels: I could read 3 of it in german, 4 more in english, I'm about to read 3 more in spanish (this last one the same way with google and dictionaries - and my native speaker spanish friend checks it, but mostly she don't have much to correct it.)
Only 2 books weren't translated in any other european languages and I can give it only a try because I have a chinese version to compare it.
(No one of this languages are my mother tongue, not even german.) And I know the anime and manga versions, but the original novel is of course far better.



@Toritoribe: And thank you for your help, the answers for 3-5 were quite helpful, but your “hard core” grammar explanation for 2) was more than confusing for me.

For the example in the link: I don't understand what the person made wrong to (mis)understanding the sentence in question. I did not.
I not only put the texts in google and copy it as my translation, but I work with it and sometimes it takes half an hour for only 1 sentence to get a roughly meaning.

I don't estimate you to translate the whole book. I posted my own try as it is told in the "read before". It was only 5 sentences in question after reading more then 20 pages.


@lanthas: thank you for the story I'm not surprised about it. I think it’s normal. A native speaker looked yesterday about my translation and said that it's a very good translation. @@ You can imagine, how surprised I was. (And I can still hardly believe it.)
 

mdchachi

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Ok people, my main problem is that I was shocked how arrogant and rude I have been treated here.
I'm not stupid, I'm absolutely clear about it that my translations are probably not perfect, but as long as I can understand something from it I will keep on reading. (better then nothing).
On the face of it, trying to read a book in a language you don't know anything about seems futile. So the reactions shouldn't be that surprising. Especially when it became clear how little you know vs. what you are trying to accomplish.

And as I told before, if I were as far that I have learned more grammar till now I wouldn't ask. But I have started japanese only 1 semester before. But it seems that I have chosen the wrong forum for my questions. Even people with ask for stupid Kanji tattoos get more nice answers than me.
Not really, they aren't treated any better.
You're welcome to stick around and ask your questions. Usually we like to help people that are trying to learn the language (as opposed to trying to get a free translation service) so I can't guarantee you'll get all that you are seeking.
 

Mike Cash

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Ok people, my main problem is that I was shocked how arrogant and rude I have been treated here.
Your main problem is how thin-skinned you are.

There is nothing arrogant or rude about pointing out that your translation efforts would go more smoothly if you studied at least elementary Japanese grammar first. Nobody is suggesting you spend "years" studying before you continue your pet project. A little time spent up front learning the fundamentals will save you tons of time, frustration, and misspent effort as you progress through the project. It is an overall net saving of time and a more productive use of effort. It not only gets you through this project more quickly and more accurately, the skills and the benefits remain with you should you decide to do future projects as well. The time spent learning the stuff saves you time later. The time you spend endlessly doing copy-paste google crap is just time p!ssed down the toilet bowl.

With fewer hours than you will waste coming up with a half-assed translation for this one book you could probably learn the language well enough to just simply read the thing as-is....AND have the benefit of being able to read other stuff that doesn't get translated either. But if you'd rather be a donkey who works himself to death going in endless circles around a grindstone instead of being able to run free in any direction you choose and actually be somewhere at the end of the day, knock yourself out. It's no skin off our noses.
 

Toritoribe

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…wait… google…found something...: Does it mean, I should translate?:
He sucked Helga into his own “shadows”.
What did you find regarding ~てしまう from google?
Your translation is for ヘルガを自分の"影"に吸い込んだ, by the way. This is exactly an example of the difference between "you think you understand it" and "you understand it correctly", no?
 

Lamy

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It was a german site, but the grammar explanation for the form was quite similar:
Nihon on the Go
I think the first meaning "to finish smt completely" would fit better to the situation and the charachter and what I heard as rumors of the story before. The meaning with the sense of "regret" doesn't fit well.
That's why I thought "he sucked or suckes compeletly into his shadows." (However I got a correction as "tries to suck" - and such a meaning of ~てしまうI couldn't find. Wouldn't that be a -てみる for express a trial?)
And this is an example where I didn't think that I have understand it, that's why I asked for help. ;)
 

Toritoribe

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Then, the problem might be in "about 90-95% of the novel", unfortunately...

Actually, it's "regrettably". The one(s) who feels regret is not always the agent. The observer(s) can be the one, for instance.
 

Lamy

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Ok. But the fact, that the observer here isn't happy about it I knew already already before . Even if someone is not familiar with the story you can see it from the context (oh sorry, I think I didn't posted the context to this one). So the question was more if the activity is completely finished or not and answer seems to be yes according this explanation of the ~てしまう-Form. That was I wanted to know.
 

Lamy

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Thank you, that explanation is quite useful.
 
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