What's new

5 Years Citizenship Residency Requirements Without Taxes

D.EVILGOD

Kouhai
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Hello All,

I have been doing a fair bit of research both on the internet and with immigration lawyers.

The Research which I gathered through the Internet says that I have to live in Japan for 5 years to get a Japanese Citizenship.

However, the immigration lawyer whom i was consulting with, told me that i have to live in Japan for 5 years and pay taxes every year in order to qualify for japanese citizenship.

The issue here is, my company overseas is paying all my expenses without paying me a salary. So according to the immigration lawyer, the japanese authorities are not allowed to tax me on my overseas salary.

Yet on the other hand, he says that if i want a japanese citizenship in 5 years time, then i have to be taxed by the japanese tax authorities on my japanese salary.

Do any of you know the real truth here?

Cheers.

D.EVILGOD
 

thomas

Unswerving cyclist
Admin
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
8,857
Reaction score
795
Yet on the other hand, he says that if i want a japanese citizenship in 5 years time, then i have to be taxed by the japanese tax authorities on my japanese salary. Do any of you know the real truth here?
I doubt anyone here could give you better advice than a Japanese immigration lawyer.

From Wikipedia:
The application has to be made in person to the Ministry of Justice branch office with responsibility for the city where the applicant lives. A booklet will be given to the applicant at the first visit which explains every needed document and processes explained in Japanese.
Your best bet would be to consult your local Bureau of Legal Affairs (法務局) too.
 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう
Joined
Mar 15, 2002
Messages
16,454
Reaction score
1,569
Are you aware of the other requirements? May I ask your current citizenship?
 

Majestic

先輩
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
1,545
Reaction score
317
The issue here is, my company overseas is paying all my expenses without paying me a salary. So according to the immigration lawyer, the japanese authorities are not allowed to tax me on my overseas salary.
A tax adviser would be better qualified than the immigration lawyer to answer the tax questions. In the first part of that sentence you say the company is not paying you a salary, and the second part of the sentence indicates you are getting paid a salary overseas.
You are liable for taxes on cash that was earned overseas and is then brought into Japan. So I'm curious (and I'm sure the tax authorities would be curious) as to how you are funding our living expenses here. Another question I have is how you are paying your national health and pension obligations. Your company may be paying these things on your behalf, but they are your obligations so I think it would be hard to argue that this was not taxable compensation.
I find it a serious stretch of the imagination that you could live here for 5 years and have all of your needs paid by the company - but that may just be a defect of my imagination. Are you paying income taxes in the country where you are employed? If no, then it starts to look like your residence in Japan is a tax dodge, and you can understand why the immigration authorities here would take a dim view of granting citizenship or residence to someone who has been dodging taxes for five years.
 

KyushuWoozy

Sempai
Donor
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
193
Reaction score
20
The issue here is, my company overseas is paying all my expenses without paying me a salary. So according to the immigration lawyer, the japanese authorities are not allowed to tax me on my overseas salary.
D.EVILGOD
I got a bit confused with this paragraph. Does it mean that you work only for expenses and don't receive any salary at all? Or does it mean that you get paid for your expenses in Japan and get paid the salary for your job outside Japan?
 

KyushuWoozy

Sempai
Donor
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
193
Reaction score
20
Seems me and Majestic had the same thoughts at the same time :)
 

D.EVILGOD

Kouhai
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
A tax adviser would be better qualified than the immigration lawyer to answer the tax questions. In the first part of that sentence you say the company is not paying you a salary, and the second part of the sentence indicates you are getting paid a salary overseas.
You are liable for taxes on cash that was earned overseas and is then brought into Japan. So I'm curious (and I'm sure the tax authorities would be curious) as to how you are funding our living expenses here. Another question I have is how you are paying your national health and pension obligations. Your company may be paying these things on your behalf, but they are your obligations so I think it would be hard to argue that this was not taxable compensation.
I find it a serious stretch of the imagination that you could live here for 5 years and have all of your needs paid by the company - but that may just be a defect of my imagination. Are you paying income taxes in the country where you are employed? If no, then it starts to look like your residence in Japan is a tax dodge, and you can understand why the immigration authorities here would take a dim view of granting citizenship or residence to someone who has been dodging taxes for five years.
Hello M, Thank You For Your Lengthy Replies.

1) I Was Born In Country "A".
I Own A Small Shop Property In Country "A" Under My Own Personal Name.

It Is Not Owned By And Not Owned Under Any Company's Name.
I am already paying monthly property tax to country "A" tax authorities from my monthly shop rental incomes.


When I was in my younger adult years, I migrated to country "B" & obtained a second citizenship in country "B".

A decade later, I travelled to country "C" to work there so I established a Private Limited Company in Country "C".

Now, I am trying to get a visa through opening a representative office of my Country "C" private limited company here in Tokyo, Japan.

2) For about a few years now, my Country "C" company is just surviving on rental income from my shop and interest income from my bank accounts.
There have been no operating income from sales of goods or sales of services so far.

This is why I said my Country "C" company has only been paying/funding for all my living expenses, eg tokyo office rental, food, air-plane tickets, transportation fees, etc without paying me a salary.

There have been no issues with Country "C" tax authorities or other Country "C" government officials giving me any issues of any kind in regards to this issue i.e. where my Country "C" company is only paying/funding all my living expenses and not paying me a salary.

2a) So since you said I am liable for taxes on cash earned overseas and brought into Japan, am i then liable for any cash earned overseas?

What Is Your Definition On Cash Earned Overseas? Is It Cash Earned Overseas From My Country "C" Private Limited Company Directly Or Salaries Paid To Myself From My Country "C" Private Limited Company?

Because clearly from the statements shown above, I have not been earning any salaries in the first place, overseas or Japan.


2b) Is my company liable for any cash brought into Japan which are brought into Japan for business expenses including living expenses for myself, who is an employee and director of my Country "C" private limited company?

First of all, I am only using a representative office in japan, not a full branch office. As a representative office, I am not allowed to do business and earn profits. If I am not earning profits, then why should I be taxed by the Japanese authorities?

Secondly, even if I have a full branch office in Japan, why should I be taxed on cash that was brought overseas into Japan as "Capital/Equities" into my own company?
When I had not been earning any profits in the first place?

Please kindly show me the Japanese law that say "Capital/Equities" brought into Japan to fund my company's operating business expenses every year has to be taxed.

2c) As I said before, my monthly shop rental income in Country "A" is already taxed overseas in Country "A". So why should the Japanese Authorities tax my monthly shop rental income which are already taxed overseas by Country "A" Tax Authorities anyway?

Thank you for all your feedback. Much Appreciated. :joyful:
:joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful:
 

johnnyG

先輩
Joined
Dec 23, 2010
Messages
976
Reaction score
148
Hello M, Thank You For Your Lengthy Replies.

1) I Was Born In Country "A".
I Own A Small Shop Property In Country "A" Under My Own Personal Name.

It Is Not Owned By And Not Owned Under Any Company's Name.
I am already paying monthly property tax to country "A" tax authorities from my monthly shop rental incomes.


When I was in my younger adult years, I migrated to country "B" & obtained a second citizenship in country "B".

A decade later, I travelled to country "C" to work there so I established a Private Limited Company in Country "C".

Now, I am trying to get a visa through opening a representative office of my Country "C" private limited company here in Tokyo, Japan.

2) For about a few years now, my Country "C" company is just surviving on rental income from my shop and interest income from my bank accounts.
There have been no operating income from sales of goods or sales of services so far.

This is why I said my Country "C" company has only been paying/funding for all my living expenses, eg tokyo office rental, food, air-plane tickets, transportation fees, etc without paying me a salary.

There have been no issues with Country "C" tax authorities or other Country "C" government officials giving me any issues of any kind in regards to this issue i.e. where my Country "C" company is only paying/funding all my living expenses and not paying me a salary.

2a) So since you said I am liable for taxes on cash earned overseas and brought into Japan, am i then liable for any cash earned overseas?

What Is Your Definition On Cash Earned Overseas? Is It Cash Earned Overseas From My Country "C" Private Limited Company Directly Or Salaries Paid To Myself From My Country "C" Private Limited Company?

Because clearly from the statements shown above, I have not been earning any salaries in the first place, overseas or Japan.


2b) Is my company liable for any cash brought into Japan which are brought into Japan for business expenses including living expenses for myself, who is an employee and director of my Country "C" private limited company?

First of all, I am only using a representative office in japan, not a full branch office. As a representative office, I am not allowed to do business and earn profits. If I am not earning profits, then why should I be taxed by the Japanese authorities?

Secondly, even if I have a full branch office in Japan, why should I be taxed on cash that was brought overseas into Japan as "Capital/Equities" into my own company?
When I had not been earning any profits in the first place?

Please kindly show me the Japanese law that say "Capital/Equities" brought into Japan to fund my company's operating business expenses every year has to be taxed.

2c) As I said before, my monthly shop rental income in Country "A" is already taxed overseas in Country "A". So why should the Japanese Authorities tax my monthly shop rental income which are already taxed overseas by Country "A" Tax Authorities anyway?

Thank you for all your feedback. Much Appreciated. :joyful:
:joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful:
Yeah, countries A, B, and C...

I truly hope you hit the hardest stone wall possible in your efforts to gain Japanese residency, and (heaven forbid!) citizenship.

May the force be with the immigration and tax authorities!
 

D.EVILGOD

Kouhai
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Another question I have is how you are paying your national health and pension obligations. Your company may be paying these things on your behalf, but they are your obligations so I think it would be hard to argue that this was not taxable compensation.
My Country "C" private limited company has not been paying my national health and pension obligations either in Country "C" or in Japan.

Are there any laws in Japan which state that an employee of a representative office of a Foreign Country Private Limited company has to have his national health and pension obligations paid by that Foreign Country Private Limited company?

Why would that be so?
I am not a full employee of of any Japanese company.
I am just an employee of a representative office of a Foreign Company in Japan which can't even do business in the first place.

So why should my foreign company be obliged to pay my national health and pension obligations in Japan when my foreign company only has a representative office in Japan (which can't do business in Japan) and not a full branch company?

Please kindly state the Japanese laws that says an employee of a representative office of a foreign company in Japan has to meet his national health and pension obligations in Japan.

Thank you. :joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful:
 

D.EVILGOD

Kouhai
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
I got a bit confused with this paragraph. Does it mean that you work only for expenses and don't receive any salary at all? Or does it mean that you get paid for your expenses in Japan and get paid the salary for your job outside Japan?
Yes It means my company is only paying me expenses and my company is not paying any salary to me at all.
 

johnnyG

先輩
Joined
Dec 23, 2010
Messages
976
Reaction score
148
Yes It means my company is only paying me expenses and my company is not paying any salary to me at all.
You are receiving compensation--you owe tax on that.

...my company is not paying any salary to me at all.
That's your dreamland. Talk to a tax office for their interpretation.
 

D.EVILGOD

Kouhai
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
I doubt anyone here could give you better advice than a Japanese immigration lawyer.

From Wikipedia:


Your best bet would be to consult your local Bureau of Legal Affairs (法務局) too.
Hello Thomas,

Thank you for your reply

Is it the Bureau of Legal Affairs or the Ministry of Justice which is responsible for granting Japanese Citizenships?

I thought it would be the Japanese Immigration Authorities who would be responsible for granting Japanese Citizenships.
 

johnnyG

先輩
Joined
Dec 23, 2010
Messages
976
Reaction score
148
So why should my foreign company be obliged to pay my national health and pension obligations in Japan when my foreign company only has a representative office in Japan (which can't do business in Japan) and not a full branch company?
Do you live in Japan? If so, you are liable (not your company, although they can share/split the payment).

If you are not current and up to date on your obligations, you can kiss any citizenship application goodbye.
 

johnnyG

先輩
Joined
Dec 23, 2010
Messages
976
Reaction score
148
I truly hope you hit the hardest stone wall possible in your efforts to gain Japanese residency, and (heaven forbid!) citizenship.
And I hope people here stop advising you on your ruse.
 

D.EVILGOD

Kouhai
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
You are receiving compensation--you owe tax on that.
That's your dreamland. Talk to a tax office for their interpretation.
Hello Johnny,

1) Are you saying that in any country in the world, Especially In Japan, a private limited company will be taxed on any business/living expenses given to their employees?

For eg, A Private Limited Company pays food expenses for their employees of about US$36,000 per person.
Now you are saying the tax authorities, or in this case the Japanese Tax Authorities, will force the Private Limited Company to be taxed on their food expenses paid for their employees?

I studied accounting in university. Achieved a full bachelor's degree in university for accounting.

This is the first time, I have ever heard that companies are taxed on expenses for their employees.

2) Or are you saying that the Japanese Tax Authorities will interprete all my expenses paid by my Private Limited Company as a "salary" or "compensation"?
 

johnnyG

先輩
Joined
Dec 23, 2010
Messages
976
Reaction score
148
Stop the attempted hair-splitting rhetoric. Save it for immigrations and the tax office--you'll need every bit of it you can muster.

Or, if you know so much, mr. accountant, then just go do it on your own.

And stop BS'ing the forum.
 

D.EVILGOD

Kouhai
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Do you live in Japan? If so, you are liable (not your company, although they can share/split the payment).

If you are not current and up to date on your obligations, you can kiss any citizenship application goodbye.
Thank you for your reply, Johnny.

As I said before, please show me the law in Japanese or English where it says I, an employee of a representative office in Japan, a representative office of a Foreign Private Limited Company, has to pay my national health and pension obligations?

According to Japanese Citizenships laws, there are no requirements for a foreign employee of a representative office to pay his national health and pension obligations.

THE NATIONALITY LAW
 

Majestic

先輩
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
1,545
Reaction score
317
OK Devilgod, it is starting to get both interesting and annoying at the same time. Are you here on a tourist visa or visa waiver? If so, you are not liable for any Japanese income taxes, and aren't obliged to join the National Pension scheme.

IF you are a resident here, you will be liable for income remitted into Japan. In your research you must have certainly come across the Tax Guide for Foreigners. I will link it here for you. Note the pages that deal with residence issues and source of income issues (pages 3-5, I think).
https://www.nta.go.jp/tetsuzuki/shinkoku/shotoku/tebiki2016/pdf/43.pdf

In regards to your question 2a, yes, in some cases you are liable for income paid from abroad. The details you seek are in the tax guide, as are the answers to the other bolded questions.

2b You have no company here yet, right? Or, you have a rep office already? Are the funds going from your coporate account overseas to your rep office's Japanese bank account? How your PLC treats the expense in Country C is (obviously) irrelevent to the Japanese National Tax Agency. However, if that income is going into your private bank account here in Japan, it will be considered by the NTA to be income from overseas. If it is going to your rep office's account to pay for your life here in Japan, you are skating on the thin ice of tax fraud, which is why the immigration office wants to see 5 years of tax returns. They will be curious how you have lived here for so long, not earning any income.

Your PLC is basically a shell company of one person, doing no business and earning only interest. The first question is why is this shell company even bothering opening up a rep office in Japan? Consider that a rhetorical question. If they see that you have been financing your life here using your rep office's expense accounts, they will take a very dim view of that, as I'm sure you will have learned in university.

2c Japan has no interest in your Country A income UNLESS you remit it to Japan while you are a resident in Japan. When you complete your Japanese tax return, you may be eligible for a credit for the tax you already paid to Country A.

Your National Pension is your own obligation. You become liable for this once you become a resident here, regardless of whether you are employed or not, or who your employee is. In your research you might have come across the following document. Please look at Page 11-12.
http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/pdfs/guide_living_en.pdf
 

D.EVILGOD

Kouhai
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
OK Devilgod, it is starting to get both interesting and annoying at the same time. Are you here on a tourist visa or visa waiver? If so, you are not liable for any Japanese income taxes, and aren't obliged to join the National Pension scheme.

IF you are a resident here, you will be liable for income remitted into Japan. In your research you must have certainly come across the Tax Guide for Foreigners. I will link it here for you. Note the pages that deal with residence issues and source of income issues (pages 3-5, I think).
https://www.nta.go.jp/tetsuzuki/shinkoku/shotoku/tebiki2016/pdf/43.pdf

In regards to your question 2a, yes, in some cases you are liable for income paid from abroad. The details you seek are in the tax guide, as are the answers to the other bolded questions.

2b You have no company here yet, right? Or, you have a rep office already? Are the funds going from your coporate account overseas to your rep office's Japanese bank account? How your PLC treats the expense in Country C is (obviously) irrelevent to the Japanese National Tax Agency. However, if that income is going into your private bank account here in Japan, it will be considered by the NTA to be income from overseas. If it is going to your rep office's account to pay for your life here in Japan, you are skating on the thin ice of tax fraud, which is why the immigration office wants to see 5 years of tax returns. They will be curious how you have lived here for so long, not earning any income.

Your PLC is basically a shell company of one person, doing no business and earning only interest. The first question is why is this shell company even bothering opening up a rep office in Japan? Consider that a rhetorical question. If they see that you have been financing your life here using your rep office's expense accounts, they will take a very dim view of that, as I'm sure you will have learned in university.

2c Japan has no interest in your Country A income UNLESS you remit it to Japan while you are a resident in Japan. When you complete your Japanese tax return, you may be eligible for a credit for the tax you already paid to Country A.

Your National Pension is your own obligation. You become liable for this once you become a resident here, regardless of whether you are employed or not, or who your employee is. In your research you might have come across the following document. Please look at Page 11-12.
http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/pdfs/guide_living_en.pdf
I fully appreciate your efforts in responding to me, M. I am on a visa-free entry right now which i will convert into a long-term visa soon.

The money which I am transferring into my japanese bank accounts are not Income which I have earned.

It is also not income which my company has earned.

It is a capital injection of cash into my representative office's Japanese bank accounts in Japan which are under my own personal names.

Why would the Japanese Tax Authorities consider capital injection of cash into representative offices or branch offices of Foreign Companies to be income?

From my studies in accounting laws, capital injections into companies by owners and shareholders are not considered to be income.

I am the only sole shareholder of my Country "C" PLC.
Why would I be taxed on injecting cash capital into my representative office of my Foreign Country "C" PLC?
No taxation laws in any country in this world right now has ever taxed any owner or shareholder of any company for injecting cash capital into their own companies.

My PLC is not a shell company. I am engaged in doing market research into all types of services industries.

Why would you say that my PLC is a shell company? Just because it is merely surviving on rental income and interest income?

Thank you for responding, once again.
 
Last edited:

WonkoTheSane

先輩
Joined
May 12, 2013
Messages
1,333
Reaction score
178
***, why are you even asking here?

Go talk to a lawyer.

Currently you're just ******* around on the Internet instead of actually finding any real information because there is nobody here who can appropriately advise you and if there were they would not do so without being paid a fee. What you're doing is a waste of time and energy.

I'd expect anyone who has the qualifications you state you have to know this without being told.
 

D.EVILGOD

Kouhai
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
***, why are you even asking here?

Go talk to a lawyer.

Currently you're just ******* around on the Internet instead of actually finding any real information because there is nobody here who can appropriately advise you and if there were they would not do so without being paid a fee. What you're doing is a waste of time and energy.

I'd expect anyone who has the qualifications you state you have to know this without being told.
I am asking here because this is what?

A Japan Practical Forum where one can ask information about all things Japanese practical matters like "work".

These questions are not only for myself but for anyone who wish to set up companies of any type in Japan.

If no one can advise me without wanting to be paid a fee, then they can just lurk around without contributing nothing at all.

Just Look And Try To Analyze Without Actually Understanding An Ounce Of What D.EVILGOD Is Writing And Gaping At My Words With Open-Mouthed Amazements.

You just use vulgarities in a public forum. Aren't you afraid of getting banned?

Yes I am the most good-looking Asian Actor who dare to put my face forwards.

Anyong!
 

Glenski

Just me
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Messages
4,734
Reaction score
272
The Ministry of Justice ultimately judges whether you get citizenship, and they give the nod to immigration authorities. I'd suggest that you visit the immigration office and ask your questions. Might as well get such serious information straight from them, instead of relying on random anonymous people on a discussion forum. You've already seen how poorly this thread is going.

The following took about 3 seconds to Google:
THE NATIONALITY LAW
The Minister of Justice shall not permit the naturalization of an alien unless he or she fulfills all of the following conditions:
(1) that he or she has domiciled in Japan for five years or more consecutively;
(2) that he or she is twenty years of age or more and of full capacity to act according to the law of his or her home country;
(3) that he or she is of upright conduct;
(4) that he or she is able to secure a livelihood by one's own property or ability, or those of one's spouse or other relatives with whom one lives on common living expenses;
(5) that he or she has no nationality, or the acquisition of Japanese nationality will result in the loss of foreign nationality;
(6) that he or she has never plotted or advocated, or formed or belonged to a political party or other organization which has plotted or advocated the overthrow of the Constitution of Japan or the Government existing thereunder, since the enforcement of the Constitution of Japan.

And, Debito Arudou (an American who naturalized into Japanese citizenship) has written a blog and updated it to show the intricate steps involved.
 

johnnyG

先輩
Joined
Dec 23, 2010
Messages
976
Reaction score
148
When this guy realizes that getting J-citizenship means he'll have to relinquish any citizenships/passports in countries A, B, C, and whatever else, he'll disappear.

Or, he'll start asking how he can game that, too.
 

johnnyG

先輩
Joined
Dec 23, 2010
Messages
976
Reaction score
148
I am asking here because this is what?

A Japan Practical Forum where one can ask information about all things Japanese practical matters like "work".

These questions are not only for myself but for anyone who wish to set up companies of any type in Japan.
This guy already knows his situation, and has talked to an immigration specialist, etc.

The reason he's here is not to find out about his immigration chances (he already knows that), it's to take advantage of others' knowledge, to find out any further twist or detail that might allow him to sidestep or subvert the system that is in place.

i.e., to further his scam.
 
Top