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~たりする時 ・ は ・ し

raikado

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Hello,

1) パタン:
軽くて平たいものがぶつかったり、たおれたりするときの音です。
マンガで見る|基本スキット|第22課
First, is it the same thing as using たおれたりしたとき?
And if it is, why not use ~たりしたとき. I thought the tense before とき was important. Is the dictionary form allowed because there is an enumeration there?

2) I need to explain quite a bit for this next sentence. 風香 gets in an embarrassing situation. Her sister, あさぎ sees this, calls her younger sister as well, and makes fun of her, then she leaves. Meanwhile, Yotsuba's father is trying to help 風香. After all this is over, 風香 apologizes for the trouble and then starts to complain (I think she complains mostly to herself, but Yotsuba's father is still in front of her) : 風香:ゔ―!!かっこ悪い!! なんでこんな事に!! あさぎ姉ちゃんにはバカにされるし

a) In the last sentence she says "あさぎ made fun of me!" and not "あさぎ will make fun of me!", right? So バカにされる = バカにされた here.

b) With what purpose is は used in あさぎ姉ちゃんには? I don't think it indicates the topic here, so...is it this one? (" 「に」の付いた部分を強める意を表す。「僕―わかっている」「ここ―ない」「わざわざ出向く―当たらない」") It says emphasis, but judging by these examples, it looks like "contrastive は". 
にはの意味 - 国語辞書 - goo辞書

3) I'd also want to check my understanding of the し particle.
彼女は美しいし気立てもいい
「She is beautiful, and, moreover, [Besides being beautiful,] she is good-natured.
しの英語・英訳 - goo辞書 英和和英

I know し can be used for enumerating. Is it exhaustive, or does it depend on context (just like ~たり)?
 
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Toritoribe

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1)
The meaning is the same. たおれるとき and たおれたとき both refer to the moment a light flat thing has fallen down.

2) a)
The key is that バカにされるし is actually not the end of the sentence. There is an omitted part after it, something like あさぎ姉ちゃんにはバカにされるし、ほんとについてない. In fact, if し is not there (= あさぎ姉ちゃんに(は)バカにされる), it's invalid since it expresses future tense.
The present form can be used even for a long-time-ago event, e.g., あさぎ姉ちゃんにはバカにされるし、あのときはほんとについてなかった.

b)
I think は is contrastive; よつばのお父さんには見られるし for instance.

3)
It depends on the context.
 

raikado

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1) What if I want to say "When the plank fell it made a ’batan' noise."
板がたおれた時、バタンと音をたてた。
板がたおれる時、バタンと音をたてた。
Are they still the same?

2) a) So this is different from the #5 here も and に / double が / どうもこうも / なんてことしてくれるの | Japan Forum. There, the dictionary form was used in the main clause, but here it isn't.
b) I see. Thanks!

3)Thank you! I want to ask about this other meaning as well.
  1. 前に挙げた事柄を原因・理由として下の事柄に続ける意を表す。から。ので。「身体はじょうぶです―、もっと働けます」「家も近いんだ―、たまには寄れよ」
In this case, is し exhaustive when offering reasons for something?
For example 身体はじょうぶですし、もっと働けます means "I can work more because my body is healthy", and not "I can work more because my body is healthy, and for other reasons as well".
 

Toritoribe

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1)
Yes, since the two events are both instant actions that occur at the same moment.

2) a)
That's right.

3)
It can be incomplete list also for cause/reason. It totally depends on the context, as well.
 

raikado

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I get it now. Thank you!

I have one more sentence with し.

This is when they first moved and they needed help with moving. In the bottom right panel: まぁいいか ジャンボが二人分働くしな.
Firstly, this is an inversion (ジャンボが二人分働くし いいんだ), right?
Secondly, is し exhaustive here?
 

Toritoribe

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Yes, it's an inversion of ジャンボが二人分働くし、まぁいいか.
Both are possible (for instance, 二人いりゃ十分だし, どうせあいつ役に立たないし, etc.).
 

raikado

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Thank you! I guess, if both are possible then it's not really that important to identify whether し is exhaustive or not in a sentence.
 

Toritoribe

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Exactly. It can be said that し sounds softer than から since it can connote there might be another reason.
 

raikado

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I see. Thanks very much for your help!
 
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