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関係に持っていく ・ てくる ・ わけでもない

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Hello,

1)あいつはボクを誘ってきた。しかし、今の状態だとかお りの子分になるだけだ。ひとまずボクの価値を上げるこ とだ。対等以上の関係にもっていかないと・・・!!
The speaker needs to make Kaori fall in love with him, but he needs to make her view him as an equal.

In the last sentence, is 彼女を omitted so that it literally means "I need to take her into a relationship of equality at least...!"?

2) 攻略の基本は相手を知ることだ。しかし、かおりは 知れば知るほどノイズが増えてくる・・・

What is the purpose of てくる here? Is it just to show "movement towards the speaker", so it means: "the noise doesn't increase for everyone, only for me"?

Or is it just to show that the action occurs over time?
If it is this one, how is it different from "かおりは知れば知るほどノイズが増える”?

3) かおりだ・・・ボクのミスコンに上書きしてきた・・・ !
The speaker organized a contest as part of his plan. Some time later, he finds out that Kaori organised an even more popular contest to "overwrite" the speaker's contest.

Is てくる showing that the intent behind Kaori's actions is directed at the speaker?

4) しかし 問題は天理だ・・・天理がいなきゃこの対決は できないが、今までみたいにじっとしていればいいって 訳でもない。
The given translation is: "But the problem is Tenri... I won't be able to have this duel without her, but she also can't just sit around like she was before."

a) The last sentence gives me the impression that it's も that just means "also/too" here, and not でも as a whole that means "or something". Is this correct?

b) I only thought about this after seeing this sentence. Does わけでもない in this sentence come from わけではない, while the one where でも means "or something" comes from わけがない?
 

Toritoribe

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1)
ボクを対等以上の関係にもっていかないと…

He decides ひとまずボクの価値を上げることだ, not ひとまず彼女の価値を下げることだ, plus, he says 対等以上の関係にもっていかないと, not 対等以下の関係にもってこないと.

2)
~てくる expresses continuous action in time line; the more I know about Kaori, the more the noise increases.

3) 4) a)
Yes.

b)
Yes for the former question.
でも can't be used as "or something" with ない except in interrogative sentences.
 
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2) I'm not entirely sure I understand.

Does ~ば~ほど without ~てくる mean a linear growth. For example "The more I turn the volume button the louder the sound is."(音ボタンを回せば回すほど音が強くなる。). ~てくるcannot be used here, right?

While ~ば~ほど with ~てくる means an accelerated growth. For example "The more I press on the pedal, the faster the car goes/ (starts to go)" (ペダルを踏めば踏むほど車が速く動いてくる). ~てくる is mandatory here, correct?

Also, please correct the sentences if needed. I'm especially unsure about the ペダルを踏む part.


I understand everything else. Thank you!
 

Toritoribe

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You can use both ボリューム/音量つまみを回せば回すほど音が大きくなってくる and 大きくなっていく. ~くなる/になる expresses "change", similar to "~てくる/いく". The point you might forget is "adjective + なる" and "verb + くる/いく".

ペダルを踏めば踏むほど車は速くなる is more common and natural.

Back to your initial question, 増える also expresses "change", therefore 知れば知るほどノイズが増える can work. 増えてくる more clearly shows that the noise increases along the time line.
 
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Hmm, maybe I've got it...

音量つまみを回せば回すほど音が大きくなる simply states that the more you turn the button the louder the sound is. So it basically states a fact. ("The more you turn the volume button the more the volume increases")

音量つまみを回せば回すほど音が大きくなってくる also says that the more I turn the button the louder the sound is, but it signifies that the volume certainly increases as time goes on. (implying that I am already turning the button more and more?) ("The more I am turning the volume button, the more the volume increases")

ペダルを踏めば踏むほど車は速くなる. Therefore, this one states a fact.
ペダルを踏めば踏むほど車は速くなってくる. And this one implies that I am pressing the pedal more and more.(because the speed increases over time)
 

Toritoribe

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The difference is subtle. 音量つまみを回せば回すほど音が大きくなった can state a fact you really did the action, similarly, この音量つまみは、回せば回すほど音が大きくなってくる can be just an explanation whether you have done it or not.
 
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As I understand it now...

音量つまみを回せば回すほど音が大きくなってきた implies that the volume has only been getting higher and higher until now. (which also implies that the button has been turned more and more)
音量つまみを回せば回すほど音が大きくなった doesn't have this meaning. The volume might have gotten lower at one point and then back up again, and so on....It only correlates the action of turning the button with the loudness of the sound.

この音量つまみは、回せば回すほど音が大きくなってくる implies that the loudness only increases within a certain time ( which means that the button will be turned/ is being turned more and more, without turning it in the opposite direction or stopping)
- "will be turned/ is being turned" might not be the most fitting thing there. I don't know how to say it. The idea that I want to highlight is that it signifies the button being continuosly rotated in only one direction-

この音量つまみは、回せば回すほど音が大きくなる doesn't give this kind of feeling.

If this is correct, the difference does seem very subtle. Especially with the present tense. The past tense seems to have a more significant difference.

.
 
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Toritoribe

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回す just means "to rotate". The two directions of the rotation both can be possible (therefore your interpretation "only one direction" can't be valid).

The problem in your examples is that 音量つまみを回せば音が大きくなる and アクセル(ペダル)を踏めば車は速くなる are quite normal, so we usually don't need to use expressions such like 回せば回すほど音が大きくなる/大きくなってくる and ペダルを踏めば踏むほど車は速くなる/速くなってくる. In other words, these sentences inevitably imply that the volume/speed unnaturally/unusually increases.


Here's the difference among those expressions.

このアンプは、使えば使うほどノイズが増える。
このアンプは、使えば使うほどノイズが増えてくる。
このアンプは、使えば使うほどノイズが増えていく。
These all can be an explanation about characteristics of an amp or the speaker's/writer's impression after really using it.

このアンプは、使えば使うほどノイズが増えた。(だから修理に出した。)
このアンプは、使えば使うほどノイズが増えていった。(だから修理に出した。)
These are a description of a past phenomenon. The fault might be already repaired now.

このアンプは、使えば使うほどノイズが増えてきた。(だから今度修理に出そうと思う。)
This sentence expresses an on-going action/phenomenon from past to the present. The noise would be increasing even now.
 
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I don't know what to say...there still is that plain form that gives me trouble. I am trying to come up with scenarios where either 増える or 増えてくる or 増えていく must be used (or at least one of them cannot be used), which might help me understand this better. Unfortunately I can't come up with anything.

If what I know about ~てくる and ~ていく is right, here, these represent whether the speaker views the matter subjectively or objectively, respectively.

So is it ok for now, if I take ~てくる・いく as showing a more clear progression of the action through time? I'm thinking of leaving this matter for later in order to encounter some more sentences...maybe it might help.
 
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