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覇 doubt and いくら + いようとも

Jun 18, 2014
Hi people!

So here it's me again with some doubts related to the Saint Seiya series. I promisse I won't be constantly boring you with questions related to this series. With this thread doubts plus my other doubts in another thread being solved, my main japanese translation doubts related to this series will be erased. I really try to research the most as I can to solve things by myself so, if I am asking something, it's because I really didn't find any concrete answer to my questions.
The first question is about the 覇 (Ha) kanji. This kanji appears in an attack/technique name from one of the protagonists of this series, Shiryuu of the Dragon constellation. So, because he is one of the main characters and this is his principal move, this technique appears in several episodes.
The technique in question is called 廬山昇龍覇 (Rozan Shō Ryū Ha), which everything before the 覇 is quite easy to translate. = Mount Lu's Rising Dragon. My problem at translating is if I translate it as the "Supreme Rising Dragon", or the "Rising Dragon Supremacy". (I guess that probably both options are correct, but I want to make sure I will use the most correct option.)
At jisho, I found this: Kanji details for 覇 - Denshi Jisho
And at goo, what I find is は【覇】[漢字項目]の意味 - 国語辞書 - goo辞書 which makes me understand this "supremacy" we're talking about comes with "force". Which could explain why some people bizarrely translates it as "Rising Dragon Force". (Chuck Norris, anyone?)
But I read in a french Saint Seiya pedia site and in a Portuguese page it translated as "Supreme Rising Dragon", so I'm in doubt. And I'm manly in doubt because sometimes the order that you write things in japanese changes when you translate it to another language, like in nihongo being A and B, and when translating to english the order of the words turning to B and A.

Is there another point to make a relation of "Rising Dragon Force" and "Rising Dragon Supremacy"? Maybe because it is an attack, and drawing a comparison, as most of the attacks names from this series end with 拳, like ペガサス流星拳, and everything being about throwing an amount of energy to knock out someone, maybe this is why people translate it as "force", as someone would translate 拳 as "fist"/"punch".

But still, "force" or "supremacy", it still sounds strange to me, and I would like to know how is the most correct (and if it's possible, literal) way to call this technique.
I googled "覇 supreme" and didn't find much things to base my theory of "Supreme Rising Dragon" being right. The only thing I found is that there's a manga called 覇-LORD-: 覇-LORD- - Wikipedia.

And later, in the series, there will be another technique carrying this kanji, 廬山百龍覇, One Hundred Rising Dragons Supremacy, or One Hundred Supreme Rising Dragons?
I would be really thankful if someone answers this doubt.

And last, but also important, I have a doubt concerning いくら and いようとも in the same sentence, who appears in this image:

Ikura ougon no chi ni yotte yomigaetta kurosu (Cloth) wo matotte iyou tomo (it's the same sentence both in anime and manga, and I just trascribed the first sentence of this one because I don't have any problem with the second one.)

Note: In the Saint Seiya universe, "Cloths" are the armors that protect the Saint warriors' bodies, and those "Cloths" somehow have a life of its own, so they could die as any living thing. When they die, they need blood to be revived/repaired, and the strongest Saints in the series are the 12 Gold Saints from the main 12 zodiacal signs. The Cloth of the character in question being mentioned was revived by the blood of a Gold Saint, thus the "golden blood".

For this sentence, we have the following translation options:
-Even if you're wearing a Cloth that has been reborn by the golden blood,
-...your body won't resist the next shock!
(this one doesn't really transmits the いくら meaning to me)
or, trying to be more literal,
No matter how strong the Cloth you're wearing is(,)(.)(; ) (E)even if it was revived by (the) golden blood,
...your body won't resist the next shock!/with the next shock, your body won't resist!

いくら is a basic 日本語 level 1 word, which gives the idea about an extent of something, right? Like the basic question, いくらですか - How much (it costs)?
But in this sentence in question, as I saw translated in another sentences from oficial Saint Seiya translations, people translate it as "No matter how strong (you are)", being "how strong" an extent which is implied by the context. So I used those other examples and applied it in this sentece. My second doubt is (but I'm think maybe I'm right with what I did) is if where talking about the amount of strenght from the Cloth, or the amount of blood used to revive the Cloth? I searched for some examples with いくら + とも/ても/でも in the end of the sentences, and I came to conclusion that probably it is referring to the blood, because I guess いくら relate to the verb from a sentence. Is it right or wrong?
And the last doubt... Is it right to translate as this? "No matter how strong the Cloth you're wearing is(,)(.)(; ) (E)even if it was revived by (the) golden blood,"
Am I just creating things that aren't there or putting 2 words to translate one, or am I right to think that "ikura" could be referring to ""No matter how strong" (or "even if it's (something/someone) strong as"...), and the "tomo" at the end of the sentence can be also expressed as "even"? So, by saying "No matter how strong the Cloth" and "even if it was revived by (the) golden blood", I think I'm expressing both "ikura" and "tomo".
I personally liked the second option I gave here, and this one gave to it a better flow for the sentence structure and took the whole meaning in it. But, of course, if I wrote all of this is to ask if I did it right.

Sorry for writing so much and taking your time.
Thanks in advance for anyone who answers my doubts!


Staff member
Feb 22, 2008
2 1,539
いくら doesn't always mean "how". いくら just emphasizes the meaning ~(よ)うとも/ても in that sentence. It doesn't refer to "the amount of strenght", or "the amount of blood" either. Thus, your first translation "Even if you're wearing a Cloth that has been reborn by the golden blood" is correct.
Jun 18, 2014
Thank you again Toritoribe! :thumbsup:

Now, the doubt that remains is to know how to interpret 覇. I would be really thankful if someone answers it for the reasons I gave above. (one of the main characters; one of the main techniques in the series)