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関西弁 questions

killerinsidee

先輩
14 Dec 2013
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I'm going through some basic 関西弁 grammar. It's not nearly as bad as I imagined, but there are a few things I can't figure out. If someone could help with these, that would be great.
These sentences are from a textbook.

1. Given example without any additional info,「バイト辞めんねんで!」(Given TL - "I'm quitting my part time job!") I'm wondering about 辞めん here. It's safe to rule out the ない→ん negative here, since へん would probably be used and I think you can't change 辞める to ん in the dictionary form, only in te form てる→てん. I hope it's not just a 辞め as a noun or something. :S

Last silly idea I had was that it's the contraction of the む classical from used for volition, same one used in 言わんばかり, but I'm not sure to what base it connects to (think it's 未然形 for 五段). However, 未然形 and 連用形 of 一段 verbs are the same nowadays so It would maybe work? It's a long shot and I don't know much about 関西弁 grammar, so who knows :).
2. Context: Mom and daughter are talking to their neighbour, the daughter threw away her mom's important letters. In the middle of the conversation, the neighbour says : 「まこちゃんも無理に無くしたんちゃうねんから。」.

Given translations is "She lost it by accident,didn't she?", but I'm more interested in the specifics. First off, I don't know what 無理に is supposed to mean here? Also, I'm assuming that 無くしたん is just a normal past tense with の turned into ん and ちゃう means that 無理に無くしたん =" wrong"? Unless ちゃう means "そうじゃない?" i.e., used like 「something ちゃう(の)?」、but the ねん (標準語→「の/んだ」や「のよ」) there would make it a statement. Especially since she said「頼むから、かにしたって。」just before.

Sorry for the wall of text.
 
無理に無くしたんちゃうねんから
無理に無くしたんじゃないんだから
Just like 違う in 標準語, it could mean either "not (so)" or "wrong".
無くしたんちゃう→無くしたのと違う→無くしたのではない

かにしたって must be a typo of かんにんしたって。
堪忍したって=堪忍してやって
堪忍する is the same as 許す in standard Japanese. So the person says "please forgive her, because she did not lose it on purpose (?)"
(I'm not sure about 無理して, I wonder if it could be the same as わざと.)
 
I think you can't change 辞める to ん in the dictionary form, only in te form てる→てん.
This is the key of your misunderstanding.;-) The English version of wikipedia just gives an example of してる, but the Japanese version clearly states that this euphonic change also occurs on the dictionary form. Thus, 辞めんねんで! is equivalent to 辞めるんだよ! in standard Japanese.

The /r/ + vowel in the verb conjugations is sometimes changed to /N/ as well as colloquial Tokyo speech. For example, nani shiteru nen "What are you doing?" often changes nani shiten nen in fluent Kansai speech.
Kansai dialect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

関東方言などと同じく、「何するねん→何すんねん」「おくれなされ→おくんなはれ」のような語中のラ行音の撥音化が盛んである。
窶ケテ溪?ケE窶「テサナ陳セ - Wikipedia
 
Thanks for the replies, I appreciate it.
[MENTION=18909]undrentide[/MENTION]-san
Apparently 堪忍する can be shortened to かにする when used in て form in requests or あげる cases, according to the book at least. *shrugs*
I also thought 無理 would mean something like わざと in this case, but I didn't find any dictionary entry with a meaning like that.

[MENTION=37151]Toritoribe[/MENTION]-san
Funny thing, I went to check 近畿方言 - Wikipedia for something else earlier today and read that 撥音 part. :)
 
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